Played Poker With A White Supremacist Last Night

[Tigerpiper]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, if you are white and doing a long stretch in prison you either take it in the butt or join one of the white supremacist gangs. so, he might have had no choice. on the other hand, he very well could be hardcore white supremacist. we may never know.

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It's 50/50

[Mr_Mxyztplk]

If every player that offened me at the table was required to leave, I'd have to change my game to solitaire. Play or leave.

[*TT*]

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I played at the same table with this guy before at the mirage in a 5-10nl game, the funny thing about it he was with a friend who was a latino 18th street gang member from what I could tell by his tats. So he cant be that racist the whole nazi thing was most likely a prison thing.

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There is a player I met at Casino Arizona back when i used to have to go there often who was covered head to toe with white power tatoos, had "skin" across his adam's apple, etc etc etc. We started talking, it was all left over from his youth when he was an ignorant kid. His girlfriend is black, the guy is as open minded as can be, but he can't get rid of the tattoos that are offensive, they are stuck on him for life so he makes the best of it. Very similar situation as the one you described.

[bearwiredpair]

Ever see these guys (white supremacist) when they have a public rally? They use their rights to legally get permits and then they walk peacefully down main street all dressed up. Then what usally happens is the good guys get all riled up and start making mistakes yelling and screaming and in some cases using violence to protest.

This is what "they" want. This is what feeds the monster.

Here we have a guy who sat down at a poker table thousands of miles from most of us and caused a ripple that turned into a 10 page post about him and his affiliations without saying a word.

So what do we do when we are thrown into situations like this? What is the "right" thing to do?

IMO, walk away.

What if everyone at every table he sat at did the same thing? The very same thing that gives him the right to sit down gives me the right to get up.

Teach our children well.

ps. chick that is an 8 with tats IMO +EV

[kailua]

[/ QUOTE ]i'll not waste my time reading the rest of your rant when you start off with such a terrible analogy. how can i trust your logic when this is how you think?body art that someone voluntarily gets and displays is in no way comparable to race or nationality, which are not determined by choice. religious followers, while eventually practicers by their own accord, typically are introduced by their parents.beyond the means by which someone becomes a member of a race, nationality or religion, the desire to express beliefs associated with these things is entirely separate from the membership itself.while your last example is a stronger hobbling crutch, you'd do well to find at least one solid example rather than two terrible ones and one mediocre one.

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terp you present valid points.

My original post began by listing numerous analogies (or varying seriousness) that were edited out at the moderator’s discretion. I am in complete agreement that the majority of individuals find the swastika offensive to varying degrees and depending on age and background may justifiably view it as symbolizing the epitome of evil.

The question was, “Should this man be prohibited from the poker room based on his exposed tats?”

My deleted analogies attempted to demonstrate that considering the diverse demographics that comprise a room on any given night, setting policy to bar a person due to an exposed symbol on their body (whether it be a tattoo, body wear, or trinkets) begins a slippery slide.

The swastika is an easy target. My analogies demonstrated that if a policy were fully enforced that excluded all who in someway symbolically prompted a strong (perhaps completely justified) negative emotional response in another group of individuals or minority, the room would be pretty well decimated.

In both of our opinions the man appears to have made a poor “choice” in tattoos. However we don’t know him and haven’t walked in his shoes. Judging and banishing him based solely on our emotional response to a symbol and nothing more diminishes us.



[/ QUOTE ] wait what? Are you a real person with a real brain? How can anyone think this stuff? WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE COME FROM AND WHY WON'T YOU GO AWAY?

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Snowball…Interesting that your comments are something you might expect from some loser sporting a swastika.

[TMTTR]

Three points that are completely irrelevant to the OP and marginally relevant to the Rottersod/TT/JDL/Skinhead debate:

(1) Given the 21st Century chic TT, I find this amusing:
"happened in front of CBGBs in 1989, my first job was as a bouncer at this legendary club..."
Maybe you were the maitre'de?

(2) By early 1985, Camper Van Beethoven was hitting the college radio airwaves with their song "Take the Skinheads Bowling." -- I saw them open for R.E.M. that year... skinheads were certainly part of pop culture at that point... I don't recall if it was as much a political movement at the time or a cultural movement (hardcore/thrash metal/etc,).

(3) I have plenty of stories about interactions with the JDL and other Kahane-related groups during my high school and college years -- they can certainly fill several pages, but suffice it to say that to Jewish students in the late 70s and early 80s, the JDL was viewed as a vehicle that attacked anti-semitic forces... unfortunately, they frequently went too far with their tactics (and their leaders had a very warped sense of reality).

[AngusThermopyle]

So I guess some would rather play with David




My guess he has no "offensive" tats.

"Don't judge a book by it's cover"

Until the guy in the OP says or does something to reinforce the bad message of his body art, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. But I would start him off with one strike.

[UATrewqaz]

The man has the right to get whatever tatoos he wants and to display them as he wants.

He has the right to enter the casino like everyone else.

People in the casino have a right to complain if they so choose.

The casino has the right to allow him to stay as is, ask him to cover up, or to force him to leave.

If allowed to remain, other people in the casino have the right to leave to protest him being allowed to stay.

The tatoo man, the casino patron, and the casino owners/operators each have freedom to make choices here.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
The man has the right to get whatever tatoos he wants and to display them as he wants.

He has the right to enter the casino like everyone else.

People in the casino have a right to complain if they so choose.

The casino has the right to allow him to stay as is, ask him to cover up, or to force him to leave.

If allowed to remain, other people in the casino have the right to leave to protest him being allowed to stay.

The tatoo man, the casino patron, and the casino owners/operators each have freedom to make choices here.

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Almost correct.

The tatooed individual does not have the right to enter the casino. The casino can deny him entry at the door... nothing illegal about a dress code (or a body decor code).

(He also does not necessarily have the right to display them "as he wants" in a public place -- but that has more to do with the body parts exposed than the substance of the tattoos.)

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Three points that are completely irrelevant to the OP and marginally relevant to the Rottersod/TT/JDL/Skinhead debate:

(1) Given the 21st Century chic TT, I find this amusing:
"happened in front of CBGBs in 1989, my first job was as a bouncer at this legendary club..."
Maybe you were the maitre'de?

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Sunday matinée security. I am essentially the same size now as I was back then except I was a brawler when I was young compared to me today. You of all people should know my background comes from the streets, its what makes me an interesting socialite today [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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(2) By early 1985, Camper Van Beethoven was hitting the college radio airwaves with their song "Take the Skinheads Bowling." -- I saw them open for R.E.M. that year... skinheads were certainly part of pop culture at that point... I don't recall if it was as much a political movement at the time or a cultural movement (hardcore/thrash metal/etc,).

[/ QUOTE ] it was part of the punk movement at that stage (which is how I was involved), Agnostic Front was possibly the first "Skinhead Band" which toured the nation and brought the subculture to the masses around '83 (this pre-dates my involvement by 2 years so I might be off on the date/first band tour). Also keep in mind Skinheads have really be around since the 50's, American Skinheads were new however. See some old classic films like Quadrophenia, they talk about "Suedeies, Suede Boys, and Suede Heads" - this was a skinhead/mod crossover. There were a few Skins signed to the Stiff record label in the 70's which of course was very popular in the US, the most famous of which was probably Ian Dury who had an easy listening classic rock song called "Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll" . The picture below of Ian was taken in front of a Skinhead "gear" & sex toys shop in the UK. Also Elton John played a Skinhead in Pinball Wizard. Back then Skinheads weren't always bald, it was an aggressive fashion.



PS - sorry for the off-topic discussion, but it is semi-relevant because the history of the movement has been mangled by the American press into white nationalist pride which was as far from reality as it could be.