Played Poker With A White Supremacist Last Night

[Rottersod]

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Mr WT -
People grow up, they change, they realize they made mistakes in the past. Getting a tattoo that is offensive is a mistake that is not easy to change, its a red flag that there might be a problem but until there is an issue I generally just ignore it because it might just be a mistake from his past.


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I'm going to assume that if someone I meet is covered in swastikas and other neo-nazi tattoos that they are what they are representing themselves to be. Choosing to ignore it and hope that he has "changed his evil ways" is no better than putting your head in the sand. I can state categorically that if someone of his description sat down at my table I'd rack up and leave, even if he was the biggest donator in the room. I fought against punks like these years ago when I was with the JDL and I have no interest in being in the same room.

[Moneyline]

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As long as he was not causing trouble, there's no reason why he should not be allowed to play.

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Other than advertising his repugnant beliefs on his arms he didn't cause any trouble. He said hardly anything and wasn't involved in any confrontations while I was there.

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I'm wondering how he/she would have handled themselves if there were a number of mixed minorities in their game (you didn't specify the mix of players).

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There were a number of minorities at the table: a Hispanic dealer, an Asian guy, a Middle-Eastern guy, and a mean-spirited, angle-shooting Italian immigrant who talked like Chico Marx.

[psandman]

Al,

You asked me to take a look at this thread. I have read the OP and your post and don't expect to read anymore. You are correct that this is a free country and people are allowed to have and express ideas which others find distatsteful.

However in being a free country others have a right to be offended by your ideas and the expression of them. And people have the right to refuse to engage in voluntary activities such as poker with people whom they find to be espousing offensive ideas. And owners of private property have a right to set the standards upon which they will allow you to come on their property and engage in business with them.

As such if a player sat down and screamed kill all the [Insert any derogatory name for an ethnic group here] I would expect the management to remove that player. Why because it is bad for there business to allow him to continue.

If that same player walked in but instead of screaming it, wore a shirt that said the same thing, I would expect that managment would throw him out (at least until he removed the shirt)

So I don't see why i would expect anything less form managment when some guy comes in wearing a swastika and the words White Power inked onto his flesh and visible to the other players.

As to a swastika card cap. I know the history of the swastika and its use as a good luck symbol, before its use by the third Reich. There are many poker chips out there with this sysmbol which were made by United States Playing Card Company prior to its use by the Nazi party. As such I am not offended when I see one of these. However if it had other markings such as the words White Power on it to clarify its meaning then I would be equally offended.

[youtalkfunny]

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LOL I think you met Tiny, a Nor. Cal. semi-regular who sometimes disappears for 2-5 years at a time.

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That is a fantastic turn of phrase. I applaud.

[CHEFXCASINO]

This guy might have been a prisoner and used the tattoos to keep from being murdered in jail. you never know.

[SNOWBALL]

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Mr WT -
People grow up, they change, they realize they made mistakes in the past. Getting a tattoo that is offensive is a mistake that is not easy to change, its a red flag that there might be a problem but until there is an issue I generally just ignore it because it might just be a mistake from his past.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to assume that if someone I meet is covered in swastikas and other neo-nazi tattoos that they are what they are representing themselves to be. Choosing to ignore it and hope that he has "changed his evil ways" is no better than putting your head in the sand. I can state categorically that if someone of his description sat down at my table I'd rack up and leave, even if he was the biggest donator in the room. I fought against punks like these years ago when I was with the JDL and I have no interest in being in the same room.

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wtf u were a member of a terrorist organization? This thread is quickly becoming epic.

[Eponymous]

I am appalled (or at least saddened) that there are people that equate national pride with membership in a racist organization. I would seriously hope that none of you actually think that displaying a Mexican, Italian, German, or other flag is a display of racism in the least. Pride in your country of origin is very different than hating people or even making broad judgments about people based on their race or nationality, as is professed by groups like the Aryan Nation. It is possible that someone who has national pride is also a racist, but they are not the same thing. (sorry for the political part of this post, but it leads to the next part)

Jews or people of color are in their right to be offended by the mere presence of this individual with his tattoos exposed regardless of his history and have every right to ask management to ask him to leave. If for no other reason, based on management's response, they would know whether they want to continue to patronize their establishment.

[RydenStoompala]

It's Vegas. They just started allowing African-Americans into the pool areas a few years ago, or is that something that is not widely known?

And if someone is wearing a swaztika, they're a making a serious statment about their penchant for hatred and violence. It's offensive on so many levels that the person wearing it seeks and desires confrontation, so if you make a scene, he gets what he wants. Explaining the impact of the swaztika to this guy would be like debating derivative valuations generated by the Black-Sholes model with him. You'd get a glassy stare and then a punch in the mouth.

The reply stating that really bad guys move around without really being noticed is absolutely right. This wipe is not a real bad guy, he's a racist mope.

[Poshua]

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Mr WT -
People grow up, they change, they realize they made mistakes in the past. Getting a tattoo that is offensive is a mistake that is not easy to change, its a red flag that there might be a problem but until there is an issue I generally just ignore it because it might just be a mistake from his past.

If the individual says anything bigoted or racially offensive I'd notify the floor and ask to have him removed, this type of customer is not in the best interest of the casino if he causes trouble but until that time comes (IF that time comes) he is innocent.

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I am unconvinced by this. It's true that the tattoos might be a mistake from his past, but if they were and he was truly embarrassed about them (and wouldn't most people be terribly embarrassed if they found themselves with racist tattoos they didn't want?) he would go to great lengths to cover them up. Further, since his girlfriend is also covered in tattoos, he is presumably sufficiently at peace with his tattoos to make them a point of connection in his relationship. I think the most likely case is that he is happy (or at least content) with his tattoos.

But even more broadly, it's just not OK to walk around displaying swastikas or other symbols of white supremacy, except for certain historical contexts not relevant here. By displaying these tattoos, this dude violates rules of common decency. It is reasonable for his fellow patrons to expect him not to show himself like that.

If he were seated across from me, I would ask the floor to have him removed. If he balked, I would complain to the room manager. If they gave me the answer that you did-- that they would wait for him to actually cause trouble, that just showing those tattoos is no violation-- I would leave the room and not come back, even if it had been my favorite poker room.

[JackInDaCrak]

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By displaying these tattoos, this dude violates rules of common decency. It is reasonable for his fellow patrons to expect him not to show himself like that.

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I disagree with this. He's entitled to display whatever he wants. It's not reasonable for anyone to expect him not to show his tatoos - it's his choice. It's your choice whether or not to sit with him. It's management's choice whether or not to remove him.

It would be reasonable for management to ask him to cover up or for management to refuse him service, just as it would be resonable for management to give him a chance and allow him to play until he demonstrates he is a trouble-maker.

Re: "rules of common decency" - well, that's subjective isn't it? You have a problem with his tattoos, some people won't. So, what's "common" about the rules?

He's certainly pushing social boundaries but there's not a per se violation of any "rules." One of the beauties of the society we live in, is that people are entitled to speak their mind, regardless of whether it may offend someone else. Along the same lines, you're entitled to be offended. But this guy certainly shouldn't be denied service simply because of a statement he wants to make.