donked on very scary turn by one of the best

rzk · #1 10-13-2007, 08:13 PM

what's his capping range? if it's AK,AQs,TT+ then you are only winning against TT.

TT - 6 combos (add 0.5 combos for JJ since we split)
AA - 3 combos
QQ,KK - 12 combos
AK - 12 combos
AQs - 3 combos

6.5 worse combos and 30 better ones. you will have to pay 2BB to win 8.75, so it's 1:4.38 on a 1:4.61 shot. even if he bets his whole range twice you don't have a profitable call-down. and the call-down becomes even worse if he (correctly) gives up on some portion of his bluffs.

Oink · #2 10-13-2007, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what's his capping range? if it's AK,AQs,TT+ then you are only winning against TT.

TT - 6 combos (add 0.5 combos for JJ since we split)
AA - 3 combos
QQ,KK - 12 combos
AK - 12 combos
AQs - 3 combos

6.5 worse combos and 30 better ones. you will have to pay 2BB to win 8.75, so it's 1:4.38 on a 1:4.61 shot. even if he bets his whole range you don't have a profitable call-down.

[/ QUOTE ]

waaaay to tight

He was good. Not a nit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

rzk · #3 10-13-2007, 08:17 PM

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waaaay to tight

He was good. Not a nit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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ok let's add 99 and AQo. then we are really screwed [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

btw, what do you think is a good capping range in this situation. i think i've been a nit since the range i gave is pretty much my capping range.

Oink · #4 10-13-2007, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
btw, what do you think is a good capping range in this situation. i think i've been a nit since the range i gave is pretty much my capping range.

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Villain is Co and yourface OTB right?

Well yourface is 3-balling me with a [censored]. So something a LOT wider than what you mentioned.

66'ish KJs, KQo, A9s, AJo, QJs, JTs, T9s

should all enter with positive prob IMO

Absolution · #5 10-13-2007, 08:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, what do you think is a good capping range in this situation. i think i've been a nit since the range i gave is pretty much my capping range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is Co and yourface OTB right?

Well yourface is 3-balling me with a [censored]. So something a LOT wider than what you mentioned.

66'ish KJs, KQo, A9s, AJo, QJs, JTs, T9s

should all enter with positive prob IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Oink, you're play is tilting me and we have never played.

waffle · #6 10-14-2007, 02:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, what do you think is a good capping range in this situation. i think i've been a nit since the range i gave is pretty much my capping range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is Co and yourface OTB right?

Well yourface is 3-balling me with a [censored]. So something a LOT wider than what you mentioned.

66'ish KJs, KQo, A9s, AJo, QJs, JTs, T9s

should all enter with positive prob IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Oink, you're play is tilting me and we have never played.

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You don't think the button should 3bet a tag's CO open raise liberally? Well, why the [censored] not?

yourface · #7 10-14-2007, 03:40 AM

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why the [censored] not?

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I'm not going to get too out of line vs this guy b/c he is v good but he has a very wide raising range which I feel I can take advantage of with position and a stronger 3bet range

edit: my quoting means I agree that we should be 3betting a wide range

rzk · #8 10-13-2007, 08:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
btw, what do you think is a good capping range in this situation. i think i've been a nit since the range i gave is pretty much my capping range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain is Co and yourface OTB right?

Well yourface is 3-balling me with a [censored]. So something a LOT wider than what you mentioned.

66'ish KJs, KQo, A9s, AJo, QJs, JTs, T9s

should all enter with positive prob IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

i've never played with yourface, is he a complete maniac? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

but seriously, what range do you put the button on if you are willing to cap the hands you mentioned?

yourface · #9 10-13-2007, 08:39 PM

I know villain is opening a wide range from the CO, prob around 30-35% of hands, so I'm def going to be 3betting him with a lot of hands including stuff like A6s 9Ts QJo and he knows that

capping some of those hands oink mentioned wouldn't necessarily be for value, but they would help balance a hand range that is usually very top heavy (big PPs, big aces). this is useful vs a thinking player who can read hands because it leads to spots where you can make profitable bluffs semibluffs and value bets when villain isn't considering those hands in your range

rzk · #10 10-13-2007, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know villain is opening a wide range from the CO, prob around 30-35% of hands, so I'm def going to be 3betting him with a lot of hands including stuff like A6s 9Ts QJo and he knows that

capping some of those hands oink mentioned wouldn't necessarily be for value, but they would help balance a hand range that is usually very top heavy (big PPs, big aces). this is useful vs a thinking player who can read hands because it leads to spots where you can make profitable bluffs semibluffs and value bets when villain isn't considering those hands in your range

[/ QUOTE ]

based on the hands you gave it looks like your 3-betting range is around 17%. against this range, hands like KQo, A9s etc. have around 45-46% equity. is the deception value really worth this huge equity disadvantage with us co being oop?

btw, i also don't understand why you would 3-bet otb this wide. i usually just follow stox's advice to 3-bet hands that have 49-50% equity against the raiser. hands like T9s,QJo,KTo certainly have less than that. do you believe the advice in WITHG is too simplistic?