Nl25 - Bad place to c-bet?

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the preflop play, I will limp a lot of trash hands on the button with a couple of limpers in front of me with a plan to fire at the flop if it has an ace, a nine, or it just looks ragged and then it gets check to me on the flop.

I typically pick up a lot of uncontested pots this way without much risk.

I fold if I flop TP and get action in front of me. Basically, I'll limp to play position and take the pot when no body wants it. Sometimes, I'll end up with a big flop and able to maximize my profits due to my position.

So, I'd probably limp on the button in this particular preflop situation.

I'm sure this is a problem for a lot of folks, but I hate to fold my button, and I hate to raise with an easily dominated A9o, so I limp in order to play for a post-flop steal. I usually get back much more than I invest this way.

If I was in CO or anywhere but the button, including SB, then I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree totally.

[maso]

Best flops to c-bet rainbows, high cards, board pairs

A72r
AK7r
QQ7r
etc.

Plus when opponents call bets on these flops their hand ranges tend to much narrower then the below flops.

Bad flops are low connected ones, two flush, monotones like
789
652

People love calling these low flops(they think you've missed )and obviously anyone with OESD or better is usually calling.

[seki]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the preflop play, I will limp a lot of trash hands on the button with a couple of limpers in front of me with a plan to fire at the flop if it has an ace, a nine, or it just looks ragged and then it gets check to me on the flop.

I typically pick up a lot of uncontested pots this way without much risk.

I fold if I flop TP and get action in front of me. Basically, I'll limp to play position and take the pot when no body wants it. Sometimes, I'll end up with a big flop and able to maximize my profits due to my position.

So, I'd probably limp on the button in this particular preflop situation.

I'm sure this is a problem for a lot of folks, but I hate to fold my button, and I hate to raise with an easily dominated A9o, so I limp in order to play for a post-flop steal. I usually get back much more than I invest this way.

If I was in CO or anywhere but the button, including SB, then I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is massively exploitable if you even have one person at your table paying attention. I like the pf raise in this situation, but it definitely needs to be more. A9 is definitely in the weaker range of hands I'd play here, but it's still a play for me. If you're table is loose, or if your image is really trashy, folding is good.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
This is massively exploitable if you even have one person at your table paying attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only by the BB. SB has to worry about BB. But BB has to worry about limp/reraisers. So, SB/BB usually don't steal as often as they probably should.

Post-flop, since you have a wide over-limping range on the button, others can only bet out light at their peril. On a flop of J77, you might very well have J7s, for example. Sure, they can c/r bluff, but they risk a lot to win a little since on the button I'll have a monster sometimes. And when the button only has 1-pair, he gets away cheap.

The positional advantage of having the button is enormous. It is not "easily exploitable" at all. You risk a little. You win more than you risk.

Frequent light button raises after two limpers in a FR game is probably more exploitable because EP limpers can limp/rr QQ-AA/AK when LAGRO button-raiser can be counted on to raise with junk on the button. They can also c/r your c-b (which you probably make about 100% of the time) to take you for much more when you lose than you would risk if you limped.

Finally, I know LOTS of semi-solid guys (who aren't positionally aware) who will limp/call a hand like AQs or AJs in EP/MP. When you flop TP on the button in a raised pot, you will lose more to these guys who have you out-kicked than if you'd limped preflop, then folded when the guy with TP in MP bets out.

[nation]

i haven't read any responses, but here's my take.

first off pf raise is bad. too many limpers, your hand is too weak, etc etc.

flop raise is bad too. you have tons of people set mining here. it's just a horrible board to c-bet (i treat min-bets as checks and just make it my normal cbet). i play the hand really slow and just take off a card.

[MadMike]

preflop raise is opponent dependent, but if I'm raising here it's to $1.5, and only if both limpers are of the tightish variety.

On the flop, neither option seems too bad, but calling is better IMHO. You can call to see the turn cheap and keep pot smallish and see if one of the other two players were fishing for a c/r... raising isn't horrible here either, but 4-way I'd prefer a call.

[Foldem78]

[ QUOTE ]
preflop raise is opponent dependent, but if I'm raising here it's to $1.5, and only if both limpers are of the tightish variety.

On the flop, neither option seems too bad, but calling is better IMHO. You can call to see the turn cheap and keep pot smallish and see if one of the other two players were fishing for a c/r... raising isn't horrible here either, but 4-way I'd prefer a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

The potential c/r and the potential "stab" at the pot make the check a lot more profitable (assuming, you catch your straight)..I wouldn't be surprised if betting, is -ev or break even at best.