Stars VIP Wild speculation

[speedle]

Stars should have a better and more appealing cash bonus program for Silver/Goldstar members.

Micro/low stakes players (like myself) often leave the site in order to pursue the great art of bonus whoring in another room.

I really dont see PokerStars caring about players who pay less rake but it was an idea.

[chezlaw]

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Look at it from this perspective too:

TOTAL MILESTONE VALUE IN $

<font color="green">200,000 - 500,000 VPP: $11,000 </font>
<font color="red">500,000 - 999,999 VPP: $6,750 </font>

You tell me who's making out with this deal.

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Seems to me that's exactly how it should be. It just looks bad because it ignores the megavalue for hitting the million. If the rewards are made too linear then the incentive to push ourselves to play more than is comfortable is removed.

A couple of people have called Stars stingy. having played high volume at several sites I hate that. There may be bits we don't like but that's kinda inevitable and at least they try. The rewards are far from stingy, way way better than other sites and unlike most places they have to pay for support staff. Also the rewards are for everyone not just those who negotiate hard or have rakeback deals.

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I certainly don't think Stars is stingy.

So Stars has a bunch of players looking for reasons to play past 500k. They don't have one, so they don't play.

And you're saying that's how it should be?

It doesn't have to necessarily be linear. A don't mind a nice jump at the end for the Elites. But why take a drop in the middle?

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Stars aim is to load bonuses towards incentives for the majority of volume players and to create an extra special status for those who might play huge amounts. Given that there has to be a drop in the middle.

The alternative is to make it linear all the way up to 1,000,000 and then have the huge bonus but that's taking money away from the majority to give it to us. Not a bad plan now I think of it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I appreciate its not you calling Stars stingy, just trying to avoid creating too many posts.

[1p0kerboy]

Scottyy(and others), what are your thoughts on this option to keep players motivated beyond 500k?

This is instead of any other plan that has been presented at this point.

You'll notice that the $7,500 milestone at 750,000 has been replaced by 3 separate $5,000 milestones at various stages. Of course the same t&amp;c would apply as far as costing 50,000 FPP. But under this plan, the benefits continue to go up slightly as players play more and more instead of going down as it previously did.


200,000VPP- $2,000 <font color="green">29.4%</font>
300,000VPP- $3,000 <font color="green">32.1%</font>
400,000VPP- $4,000 <font color="green">34.7%</font>
500,000VPP- $5,000 <font color="green">37.3%</font>
600,000VPP- $5,000 <font color="green">39.0%</font>
700,000VPP- $5,000 <font color="green">40.2%</font>
800,000VPP- $5,000 <font color="green">41.1%</font>
Chase for Supernova Elite!
1,000,000VPP Package!* <font color="green">51.4%</font>

*Assumes 2 12k packages (and not the 18k EPT that is available).

[SgtJake]

I'll be in the 500K to 800K range this year and next year. My 2 cents........

* I hate the freerolls
* I'd like to be able to get some free entries to the Sunday million in place of the stupid freerolls
* I like the sn+ idea a lot
* I like anything that provides more value for 500K to 1M
* If there is no change to the current system, I plan to steal Prodigy's outstanding idea of mixing in some Full Tilt tables to maximize game selection &amp; rewards once I pass 500K (right now I play 100% Stars).

[TheProdigy]

[censored] you Jake, I don't feel like you being on any more of my tables than need be.

[MicroBob]

Some good ideas in this thread.

Regarding the 'stingy' comment:
I don't think many of us really think that at all.
Most of us are at Stars because we think they are pretty awesome in a lot of different areas. We think their rewards program is 'pretty good'. Doesn't mean it can't be improved. But for many of us we already consider it to be pretty much better than anything else out there...especially when you factor in game-availability, software-preference, etc.

I don't recall the stingy thing being mentioned by anyone other than onlinepro who very obviously has some different views about a lot of this stuff than many of the rest of us.


chezlaw - I might be wrong, but my understanding was that they were considering giving you a coihce at 750k...either $7.5k OR the $12k PCA package.
So if you still want the cash you can do that obviously.
Allowing this choice will likely mean taking away slightly from something else though so perhaps you just want no choice at all and want them to throw everything into bigger cash-bonuses. Not sure.


Regarding the bonuses for the first 500k points: To be technically correct, you get all that cash for the first 510 or 515k VPP's or so. They tend to let you start clearing the bonus requirement a little bit early sometimes. But if you only played 500k VPP's then you would NOT get that last $4250.
It's a minor nit-pick but whatever.
If we're going to look at the $5k bonus as technically being more like $4250 then we should also technically look at it coming at 515k-ish instead of 500k.

Also worth noting that you don't have to finish the 515k or whatever in that yr though. If you get to 500k before Dec 31 you're still good and can finish off the bonus requirement into the following yr.

[SgtJake]

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[censored] you Jake, I don't feel like you being on any more of my tables than need be.

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LOL, too bad beech.

It's actually funny how close we are in fpp's, level's played and game selection. We aint gonna be able to shake one another for quite some time. I'm actually considering leaving my job in January and playing full time, so you're only gonna see more of me.

And what'd I tell ya about giving away ur money making secrets (I got ran out of the FR forum for it lolz, they hate me [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]).

[chezlaw]

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chezlaw - I might be wrong, but my understanding was that they were considering giving you a coihce at 750k...either $7.5k OR the $12k PCA package.
So if you still want the cash you can do that obviously.
Allowing this choice will likely mean taking away slightly from something else though so perhaps you just want no choice at all and want them to throw everything into bigger cash-bonuses. Not sure.

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My bad, a choice between tournies or cash sounds brilliant. 12k package vs 7.5k cash seems a big gap but if that's the value stars put on the promotional value then fair enough.

Maybe my bad about stingyness as well. Thought I seen two people say it but looks like it was onlinepro twice.

cliff notes. Stars is brilliant, cash option for tournies is brilliant.

[bumpking]

I thought OnlinePro made some good points:

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We have to keep in mind here that the higher end Supernovas are worth alot more to stars then just the value of our own net rake. Imagine how many games we keep alive and get going because we are playing 6-12 tables at once ? At any given cash game there is at least 3 supernovas, what happens if all 3 of us stop playing ? Tables start to break. So stars has to give us alot more incentive to continue playing.

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I know that when I start a session, I usually get all the higher staked tables started. It seems like not too many people factor this in.


Here is my 2 cents, some of these points I haven't seen yet:

1. I know that the $12-16k packages are beneficial for Stars for marketing purposes, but I personally have no interest in playing a tourney like that. First, it's not my forte. Second, the $10k entry fee means I have to play 40+ hours to get into the $. Well, I make about $400/hr on Stars, so it is hugely -EV for me to play these. Of course me being gone for a week is HUGELY -EV for Stars in my lost rake and ability to start tables.

2. As for those freerolls, they're a total joke for me. "IF" I'm online and playing on Saturdays, I don't even play in them. It makes me lower my usual # of tables by more than 1, which costs me $/hr. Since it is not the same type of game as my other tables, it requires me to change gears mentally and a few extra seconds per turn. Give the players an option to opt out of them for $ please.

3. Even though I'll finish this year with about 1.5M VPPs, I think making nice packages/improvements for the 50-200k VPP members is where it's really at for Stars. That's the bread and butter. Someone else said it earlier: without the fish, this whole internet poker gig crumbles for everyone. Yes, you heard it from me, a 2007 future SNE: keeping the little guys happy is more important than keeping us SNE or SN+ happy.

4. Whether they adjust the VPP program or not, I think they should implement something in addition where if you log in and get at least [X] VPPs per day, then you get a bonus for the number of days you play in a month. i.e. if you get at least 100VPPs/day for 20 days, then you get some sort of bonus. If you do it for 25 days, then a bigger bonus. If it's 1,000VPPs/day, then your bonus is also larger. etc, etc. Just an idea would be to take your minimum VPPs in a day, multiply it by # of days played that month and that's the # of extra FPPs you get for the month (say a 20-day/100VPP minimum). i.e. your minimum day that month was 400 VPPs and you played 23 days, then you would get 400*23 = 9,200 FPPs for the month.

4 (summary): I think Stars needs more people to just log in. If people are like me, then once you start up some tables, you're gonna sit there for some minimum period of time. If they could get people to just log in everyday, then those people are gonna play.

5. Point #4 is somewhat stolen from PartyPoker. Along those lines, having a "happy" hour where the FPP multiplier is increased by an additional % to get and keep games going during low hours could be key also.


Anyways, I think everyone's made good points, but we're starting to just re-hash how to split up the bonuses. Let's try to think a little more outside the box. I think my #4 and #5 really have some merit. Any other ideas out there on how to get more people to log in more often?

-BK

[MicroBob]

bumpking - great post. some new thoughts in there we hadn't really discussed.

yes, onlinepro definitely has an occasional nugget or 3 of wisdom in between some of the rigged paranoia and the idea that the SN+'s are really valuable for all the games they keep going that would otherwise die out is a particularly good one.
I've frequently thought of myself as practically a prop for Stars but I just get FPP's and milestones instead of super-high RB. Works out somewhat similarly although again OP is correct that better deals could be had elsewhere.
I don't know if such better deals could be had at a site where one can pretty easily find 12 tables to play on if one chooses though.
That's where I like Stars better. The RB is relatively high plus there are a lot more tables to choose from vs. other sites.

Really really like your idea of late-night happy-hours for FPP's on Stars. I think Party gave the bonus points from 2p-10a. Even just 1.5x VPP's or 1.25x FPP's from 4a-8a eastern or something could be really valuable and could keep a lot more games going.
This is really a great idea that I think could benefit all parties.