Stuck Between Agnosticism and Christianity

[kurto]

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I want to see an example of an amazing Biblical prophesy.

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if you're already a believer then there's quite a few. If you're not already a believer, then you'll be presented with some very vague predictions that scholars can't even agree are translated correctly predicting some things that you can hammer into the hole and say it fits.

[IronUnkind]

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You might as well say that a Christian's lack of belief in Thor is just as much a religion as his Christianity. No it's not.

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To the extent that Christians devote hours of their lives debunking Thor-worship on internet message boards, your analogy holds.

[IronUnkind]

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Atheism (non theism) does not require proof or evidence because it is the default position.

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Spaghetti Monsters notwithstanding, this is a problematic premise.

[Nielsio]

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Growing up Catholic, I was taught where where we go after we die (and for some reason, purgatory was neglected to be mentioned as an option). On top of this, I was taught how to behave so you could actually control where you go when you die.

As I developed as a person, my math and science type of mind slowly started seeing a pattern in society and life. People can manipulate your behaviour by presenting consequences as a result of that behaviour. This exact process is the “IF” “THEN ELSE” computer programming method.

That model is good for controlling children and locking up criminals but it is no good for telling me how to live my life. I slowly stepped out of my “religion” (Catholicism) and only after reading about Agnosticism did I realize that’s what I now was, not that it mattered to me.

I find it very odd that so many different religions can believe so many different things and they are each certain they are right. Like I said, I'm a math guy and that doesn't add up.

Mu current position is that I don’t know what’s going to happen to me when I die so by default, I don’t know if there’s anything I can do about it while I’m alive.

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You're an atheist. Agnostic is not a belief position, it's a method of gaining knowledge.

[Jamougha]

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You might as well say that a Christian's lack of belief in Thor is just as much a religion as his Christianity. No it's not.

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To the extent that Christians devote hours of their lives debunking Thor-worship on internet message boards, your analogy holds.

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People spend plenty of time debunking homeopathy, astrology, ghosts, Austrian School economics, etc etc. Does that make lack of belief in those things into a religion?

There is a difference between passion and dogmatism.

[Bataglin]

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a-man-under-the-bedism


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Ah, so there you are, ye evil nonbelievers. Did you know Stalin and Hitler was amanunderthebedists?? Huh? Did you??

The Man under the Bed warned me about you guys.

[bunny]

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There will never be any proof or evidence FOR atheism, so I'm sunk.

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I think a logical contradiction arising from theist beliefs will do it.

[bunny]

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...My intent in answering this OP was to answer his question not to get in spurious arguments with everyone on this site or to answer every question raised...No one else seems to be answering every post or every question so I find it unreasonable for posters in this forum to hold me to a different and higher standard than they hold themselves... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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The reason we have more to answer is because we are making the positive claim. We say there is a mysterious, non-physical "thing" which influences the world and which has far-reaching ramifications. Because we make the claim - we're the ones who should answer the questions like "Where is it? What is it? How can something non-physical have any effect on the world? How do you know? How do you reconcile the fact that there are a whole bunch of other religions contradicting your claims? Etcetera etcetera..."

That's the reason it feels like you are being held to a higher standard than others - because you are making a claim. The atheists are not making any claim about the world, they are saying they dont believe what some other people say.

[bunny]

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I've just started college, an obvious major turning point in my life, and have spent some time evaluating my personal beliefs. I was raised in Christan home, but had my fights with religion from youth through today. I always felt as if something was being imposed on me, and am uneasy in churches or religious areas/gatherings in general. During highschool I read a lot of Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, and Burtrand Russell, and agreed with the vast majority of things they had to say. I've spent a great many years as a "true" agnostic, rather than using it as a stepping stone from theism to atheism.

However, I've lately been extremely concerned about the existence of Hell and the implications of my agnosticism after my death, should I end up wrong. I've actually tired to believe in Christianity/Jesus, but my prior knowledge and opposing viewpoints shoot doubt through the entirety of the religion.

I'm actually having a fairly difficult time articulating the deeper sentiments here, so I'll get to the point. I'm terrified of hell, but would likely never have any level of faith that would be required to avoid it due to my many years as an agnostic. Is this situation common?

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My views are not very widely held, especially in america, but it may mean something to you. I believe in god but not in hell - it doesnt make sense to me that a benevolent god would create hell. When christians tell me there is a hell and atheists are going there, I ask them if they think God is going to lovingly torture you forever because you are unwilling to pretend to believe in him.

I havent heard any good answers (I'd be curious if Brad1970, Peter666 or Splendour or others have any response...?)

[Nielsio]

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I believe in god but not in hell

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Can you elaborate? Q3 & Q4