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#301
10-07-2007, 04:56 AM
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Re: AC question
If would like to point out that it says re: tame_deuces, and I never said those things. You probably just replied to the wrong person or something, but I don't want anyone to believe I said them, so I'm just saying, hehe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#303
10-07-2007, 07:05 AM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
I'm responding kinda late, but... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] The jews lived in a state where the majority stood behind Hitler and his ideas and thoguth that his ideals were good. It was the burden of hte jews to convince the Nazi's, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Was there a point here? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ] No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ] 2+2=4 Gravity exists the earth revolves around the sun.... The only substance of your arugment was that the minority has to do the convincing. Don't you think ACist know this already? And the point of the jews thing is that condidtions can exist that are terrible, with which the majority agree (because they have been systematically propagandized to do so), and the minority suffer greatly. Also, many from that majority, who at one point defended the legitimacy of their views and actions with great fervor, lived to regret it and feel great shame. That is true of Nazi germany and that is (on a very small scale) true now in the USA and will increase in decades to come. The 'wrongs' may not compare in magnatude, but I ofen use extreme analogies to make a point.
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#304
10-07-2007, 07:10 AM
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Re: AC question
Nazi germany was not a state any of us who question AC has supported, because it was not a democracy but a dictatorship. Thank you, move on, next example please.
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#305
10-07-2007, 07:43 AM
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Re: AC question
Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic?
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#306
10-07-2007, 08:44 AM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic? [/ QUOTE ] Some people just can't see the forrest for the trees.
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#307
10-07-2007, 10:31 AM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
I'm responding kinda late, but... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] The jews lived in a state where the majority stood behind Hitler and his ideas and thoguth that his ideals were good. It was the burden of hte jews to convince the Nazi's, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Was there a point here? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] We live in a state and the vast majority of people think states are a good thing. It is ACists who have to do the convincing, not the other way around. Fair or not. [/ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ] No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ] It was a simple question. Yes, you described the status quo. I asked what you thought about it.
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#308
10-07-2007, 10:40 AM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't really matter anyway. There is nothing inherently wrong with force, imprisonment, police etc. even from an AC point of view. Actually it is most likely that a large part of self-formed communities in an AC setting (if it were to go into effect now) would be democracies, and employ police force and formal rules. AC isn't a stance against the modern democracy, taxation or the legal system or whatnot, at least as far as I understand. It is a stance against the state. , which is an inherently different thing. [/ QUOTE ] This is like saying an "automobile" is an "inherently different thing" than a "ford taurus." If you oppose automobiles you're going to necessarily oppose ford tauruses. [ QUOTE ] So you are left with the two premises that AC opposes: 1. The state is a monopoly. (Other market competitors are forcefully oppressed). 2. The state isn't based on voluntarist behavior. (Citizens of the state didn't sign the contract). If I am wrong here, then some AC supporter come and tell me right away. If AC is some big opposition towards the principles of democratic organization or similar, then I have misunderstood the whole thing. [/ QUOTE ] No, you're right. It's not democracy specifically. It's just that most of the people who are in position to fight against the idea of people living without coercion support democracy.
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#309
10-07-2007, 10:42 AM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler got a higher proportion of votes in 1932 than the Labour party in the UK did in 2005. Exactly how was this not democratic? [/ QUOTE ] Previous threads in this forum addressing this question have included such brilliant tactics as arguing that since it produced a "bad" result, it isn't democratic.
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#310
10-07-2007, 01:56 PM
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Re: AC question
[ QUOTE ]
2+2=4 Gravity exists the earth revolves around the sun.... The only substance of your arugment was that the minority has to do the convincing. Don't you think ACist know this already? [/ QUOTE ] Someone was saying that the burden of proof is on statists to show why the state is good. I was just pointing out that practically speaking that is not the case. [ QUOTE ] And the point of the jews thing is that condidtions can exist that are terrible, with which the majority agree (because they have been systematically propagandized to do so), and the minority suffer greatly. Also, many from that majority, who at one point defended the legitimacy of their views and actions with great fervor, lived to regret it and feel great shame. That is true of Nazi germany and that is (on a very small scale) true now in the USA and will increase in decades to come. The 'wrongs' may not compare in magnatude, but I ofen use extreme analogies to make a point. [/ QUOTE ] What I said had nothing to do with whether states are 'right' or 'wrong'. I was just talking about the burden of proof. So yes, you are correct, but it's besides the point. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Might makes right? [/ QUOTE ]No.. I'm describing the reality of a specific situation. I'm baffled at the responses I got. Do you actually disagree with me? You act as if I was making some sort of esoteric argument, when I was making a simple statement of fact. [/ QUOTE ]It was a simple question. Yes, you described the status quo. I asked what you thought about it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know where your question came from or how it's relevant, but no, "right" is subjective.
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