Loose NL Games, Continuation Bets, And Pot Size Control

[MikeLowry]

As most know loose NL games pots are frequently large and multiway. My questions are this; What are the criteria for assessing how much you should use continuation bets? Should they be larger in a game that is much more loose than others to charge weaker hands more? If you do make your continuation bets larger aren't you making the pot larger for someone else when you have nothing? I hope I am making my questions clear if you have trouble understanding what I am trying to ask just let me know and I will try to further elaborate. Example: You pick up AKs from EP and raise it up 5xbb ($10) and get three callers. Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the pot is around $40. Do you bet the standard half pot or do you make it larger somewhere around $35 or $40? When you do bet the larger amount you have just made a nice sized pot that you will most likely have to check/fold on the turn unless you spike an Ace or King. See the dilemma? Thanks for the response in advance.

[NicGreek]

Stack sizes?

If stacks are deep ill try a potsized bet, mostly to get the drawing ppl to lay down. If i get called im probably shutting down / reevaluating situation on turn.

If stacks are short, i would think of giving it up, with a check/fold. And if it goes roundcheck and a harmless card comes or I improve like K or A i would bet halfpot.

[TheWalrus]

From EP with 3 callers pre-flop I would likely check the AK here with the intention of folding to 1/2 pot bet or bigger. Depending on many other factors of course...
I would also conside raising less in the same situation if it came up again... In that situation you are rasing to thin the field... if the field refuses to be thinned... why rasie?

[shmoosh]

[ QUOTE ]
From EP with 3 callers pre-flop I would likely check the AK here with the intention of folding to 1/2 pot bet or bigger. Depending on many other factors of course...
I would also conside raising less in the same situation if it came up again... In that situation you are rasing to thin the field... if the field refuses to be thinned... why rasie?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opponents refusal to fold should not discourage you from raising. AK is a much better hand than your opponents figure to have, and you should raise with it aggressively. Having more opponents in the pot increases volatility, but this is more than compensated for by the increase in equity you gain from opponents adding money to the pot with inferior hands.

[Triumph36]

Exactly. Also, the only reason why 'thinning the field' would be good is if you wanted to win with ace high. Otherwise, even though a lot of flops will come with no pair for you, you will make money on flops where you do have at least a pair. You want to raise more pre-flop, not less.

[blaettler]

..if you got more then 2 callers and didn't hit i wouldn't make a continuation bet..

have a pot should be fine with less callers

[kongo_totte]

You should be less likely to make continueation bets vs. loose players. The point of the continuation bet is to keep representing the strong hand you represented before the flop. If poeple won't fold their bottom pair or the pocket 7s on a K J X flop, wait till you have top pair or better. Then bet. And when you do bet, bet strong, as if they are loose, they are likely to call bigger bets as a dog.

[fnord_too]

Why oh why do you want to continuation bet into three loose callers when you have Ace high OOP? Here are a couple of tips, free for nothin:

1. You don't have to put another dime in the pot post flop just because you raised pre flop.
2. Saying that another way, you don't have to win every hand you play.
3. Often, you raise pre flop knowing that a large percentage of the time you won't be putting more into the pot quite often. (e.g. raising with speculative hands pre flop so you can build a big pot when you do hit your now well disguised hand).

Bigger continuation bets are not the answer, giving up on hopeless hands is.

In general, I continuation bet into two opponents rarely when I completely miss the flop. It is extremely rare (though not unheard of) that I would make a continuation bet into three opponents in this situation. Also, I don't continuation bet into one opponent all the time when I miss.

You beat loose games by getting paid off, not by stealing small pots.

[restrikt]

It depends on the number of opponents in the hand, and your position.

If there are 9 players calling to the flop and Im' out of position, there's no way I am leading out on that flop. It's far too likely Im' already beat by top pair, or perhaps even worse.

But, if there are fewer callers, say only three or four including myself, and I'm on the button, and it's checked around to me - I'll make about a 1/2 size pot bet. If it's check-raised, I'll fold, but more often than not, I'll pick up the pot anytime I showed strength before the flop.

Often, I'll make the same play with nothing, as long as I have position. Generally, a lot of players like to call to see flops, but will not call, raise or bet unless they have some sort of hand. With only 3 or 4 players to the flop, very often, they have weak or no hands, and I pick up the pot while in position.

This is why in loose NL games, I'll often call a small raise, or call the blinds, if I'm on the button or cutoff, because much of the time, I can take the pot away with my position against weaker opponents, who are scared to fire back.

[Dromar]

[ QUOTE ]
Why oh why do you want to continuation bet into three loose callers when you have Ace high OOP? Here are a couple of tips, free for nothin:

1. You don't have to put another dime in the pot post flop just because you raised pre flop.
2. Saying that another way, you don't have to win every hand you play.
3. Often, you raise pre flop knowing that a large percentage of the time you won't be putting more into the pot quite often. (e.g. raising with speculative hands pre flop so you can build a big pot when you do hit your now well disguised hand).

Bigger continuation bets are not the answer, giving up on hopeless hands is.

In general, I continuation bet into two opponents rarely when I completely miss the flop. It is extremely rare (though not unheard of) that I would make a continuation bet into three opponents in this situation. Also, I don't continuation bet into one opponent all the time when I miss.

You beat loose games by getting paid off, not by stealing small pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valuable information. Good post. Continuation bets are probably the shakiest part of my game right now.