2/4 razz : bad hand, good odds

[appears]

No one in this pot had any idea how to play. Me being in this pot -- well, I only have some vague idea how to play. So I think I did alright up to 5th st., though I certainly welcome any comments. Should I fold 5th? I'm getting better than 12-1 ... was that good enough? With the hand I had, how good is good enough ?

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (17.50 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (10.75 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls $1.50 and is all-in
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls $2.75 and is all-in
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (13.81 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___all-in
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___all-in
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks

River - (13.81 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___folds

Total pot: (14.81 BB)

[WhiteWolf]

Closing the action on 5th, if calling is wrong it can't be very much wrong. You're certainly getting great odds: the real danger is that the 5th call may force you into making bad calls on 6th + 7th, so you'll have to play those streets carefully depending on how everyone catches. One good thing is that 2 players are all in, as Seat 2 shouldn't be bluffing on the latter streets.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
No one in this pot had any idea how to play. Me being in this pot -- well, I only have some vague idea how to play. So I think I did alright up to 5th st., though I certainly welcome any comments. Should I fold 5th? I'm getting better than 12-1 ... was that good enough? With the hand I had, how good is good enough ?

Razz ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, you are first to bet. So, you complete. Then, a wheel card raises. Then, another wheel card and an 8 call.

How much money did you want to put into a pot with THREE opponents, two of whom may very well have better hands than you? There's no 6 or 3 on the board and just calling here might not be a terrible idea until you see 4th. Jamming just gives EVERYONE the odds to call any brick they get. Which they all did on 4th when you were betting the way your board looked and not wanting to give away your pair. Very possibly if you has not jammed this, someone, or two, might have folded on 4th.

On 5th, you fold. Foldfoldfold. Then fold. You have to catch not two cards, but two PERFECT cards. You have a three card six and you have two who are very possibly drawing to four-card wheels.

You seem to have a lot of money to throw around. Many are happy to catch it. And they never stop playing. Ever. Even when posting in poker forums.

Now, go find SGspecial and read all his posts. Then read Sklansky on poker. If you want to give away money my name on FT is aMurderofCrows. I accept all cash transfers.

prax

[Sp00n]

Jamming 4th is standard, fold 5th.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
Jamming 4th is standard, fold 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]
4th wasn't jammed.

[*TT*]

ignoring the earlier streets (3rd street was horrible IMHO), I'd like to point out that 5th street is not the insta-fold others have said it is. getting over 11:1 you should play on in a 3-way pot, in a 4 way pot with two players all in.....

I honestly don't know. I need to think about this for a while. I lean towards folding but I'm not positive thats right if the villain doesnt think.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
ignoring the earlier streets (3rd street was horrible IMHO), I'd like to point out that 5th street is not the insta-fold others have said it is. getting over 11:1 you should play on in a 3-way pot, in a 4 way pot with two players all in.....

[/ QUOTE ]
Playing on when pot odds are the single reason to do so is a good way to go broke and there is nothing else here that justifies putting more money into this mess.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing on when pot odds are the single reason to do so is a good way to win money in limit games

[/ QUOTE ]

[Davdob]

I dont think there is any reason whatsoever to reraise on 3d. With that many people in and a raise in already, all reasons to raise are gone.

If you catch bad on 4th, you are going to have to play already.

With this many people in, I would be reluctant to risk more money then.

On 4th, given the cards that came the bet is pretty much mandatory.

On 5th all that reraising on 3d has bitten you in the ass. Now you have an argument for a marginal call with a total crap hand.

By 6th you are are dead. You are drawing to a hand that 2 others will for sure beat you with if they hit. Player 4 must have a brain aneurism or let his dog play that hand. No reason to go any further if you decided to make the marginal call on 5th.

[*schnozberries*]

Yeah I agree with davdob no reraise on third is a better option making your decions on the later streets a lot more clear.