top pair checkup

[Justin A]

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river is a must bet since you're most likely chopping at worst and it's at least possible to get a chopping hand to fold.

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I completely disagree. I like the turn raise to charge spade & pair + gutshot type hands (and if you get him off an ace then, that's a sweet bonus), but if he called the turn raise with an 8 (including 87 type hands, which have now improved), he's almost never folding the river. IMO, you lose to a blah ace far more often than your bet gets him off a chop. Check the river.

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I disagree. This guy has been described as the type who will coldcall 3 bets and then fold for one bet on the flop. I could be wrong but this seems like the type of guy who will also fold too many rivers. Pot is big and since we're usually either winning or chopping anyway, a bet rarely has to work as a bluff to be profitable.

[arh1]

Does anyone think calling the turn is good, or is raising definitely better?

Reasons to call:
The pot isn't very big.
We might be able to save a bet when behind.
Villain probably isn't folding to the turn raise.
He's charging himself if he's drawing.
Feels like our equity here is less than desirable.


I don't know, I could use some help in these situations.

???

[ProfessorBen]

You're missing alot of subtleties:

Reasons to call:
The pot isn't very big. 5BB isn't small either.

We might be able to save a bet when behind. 2 bets are going in either way on the turn/river.

Villain probably isn't folding to the turn raise. Really? This is a tough spot for any 8, 99 and TT.

He's charging himself if he's drawing. We're often drawing to 3 outs or less when behind, we're lucky if we have 5. If we're 3 bet those outs probably weren't even there. It is much more likely villain is drawing given the board.

Feels like our equity here is less than desirable. [b]Our hand equity against his range isn't great but the size of the pot, possibility of folding a better hand, opportunity to charge draws, and having underepped our holding previously makes this a good raise.

[GuyOnTilt]

I remember a hand I played a couple years back with T9s that was pretty similar to this one (except I raised two limpers PF). I bet the river. In your hand a bet is even more clear-cut.

Unless I know the flop bettor donks into fields with a decently wide range, I play the hand the same all the way.

[arh1]

You're missing alot of subtleties:

Reasons to call:
The pot isn't very big. 5BB isn't small either. It's
small enough to not want to make it much bigger.

We might be able to save a bet when behind. 2 bets are going in either way on the turn/river. Unless villain checks the river, which seems reasonable often enough.

Villain probably isn't folding to the turn raise. Really?
This is a tough spot for any 8, 99 and TT. Ok, but villain is loose and bad. Not so sure I would count on him giving up after he bet the flop and turn. The Ace really shouldn't scare villain (although PJ said villain can't read hands).

He's charging himself if he's drawing. We're often drawing to 3 outs or less when behind, we're lucky if we have 5. If we're 3 bet those outs probably weren't even there. It is much more likely villain is drawing given the board. Oops, I was referring to villian charging himself to bet on the come. Therefore, we don't "have to" raise to charge him more.

Feels like our equity here is less than desirable. Our hand equity against his range isn't great but the size of the pot, possibility of folding a better hand, opportunity to charge draws, and having underepped our holding previously makes this a good raise.

Thanks for your thoughts.