How often do you fire again here?

[NicholasJ]

[ QUOTE ]
As played I'm firing here almost always. Although if I had the A I might not. Guess I'm gonna have to think more about this.

The part I don't like too much is PF. If the game is super aggro and you don't mind getting in it PF or on most flops with 99 then I like it. If not then rr'ing OOP is pretty bad. It's a pure bluff now. I mean what flop are you comfortable getting it in with? When that's the case you may as well have 27o, right? You're gonna bet/fold anyway so it's just a waste of a good hand. With 99 you can setmine, raise flop, or c/c down depending on flop texture and opponent. Blindly raising and firing is often good poker, but not with a hand that has solid value like 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

99 has little to negative value oop without initiative against a solid player. 'standard' is a reraise, but occasionally I may call against the right villain.

[NicholasJ]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't like preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

[Floyd13]

Well we don't seem to be coming together regarding PF, so how about we go back to the question at hand. As was noted earlier, I first said fire and then thought well maybe I wouldn't if I actually had it. Clearly this is bad. I'm assuming everyone who likes firing is playing this the same with AK?

[NicholasJ]

[ QUOTE ]
3betting pre is just turning a decent showdown hand into a bluff imo. I guess its one of those that could go either way, but imo it is more profitable to play a smaller pot with 99, esp OOP.

Anyway, I'm firing this turn like 99% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

3betting is NOT turning 99 into a bluff. It is giving you more ways to win than showing down (which we all do only around 20% of the time). We are OOP and inflating the pot relative to stacks makes hands easier to play, not more difficult, postflop.

[NicholasJ]

[ QUOTE ]
To the 3bet preflop gang,

the fact that you are OOP doesn't matter near as much now that you guys have bloated the pot with a marginal hand, especially vs a 19/17/awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, hero is awesome, villain is standard 200 tag.

[shpanko]

Regarding pf play, you should mix it up between 1. calling and c/c or c/r the flop and 2. RR'ing pf

There are good reasons for doing both, RR'ing pf is good because you're ahead of the TAG's range, you'll get him to fold some hands which have good equity against you like QJ/KQ etc, and a lot of the time you'll be ahead of his calling range because TAG's love to try to outplay people and "flop big" and so you'll take it down a lot on the flop with a c-bet, we're not committing ourselves to stacking off or anything by RR'ing, we're just pushing out equity edge.

Calling is good because it gets another c-bet out of villain if he holds garbage/weak hands, it lets us see the flop cheap and keep the pot small with a medium overpair, and if villain is bluffy we can let him do the betting for us.

So mix it up between the two and you'll be in good shape, neither course of action is better than the other barring better/more specific reads.

As for the hand I love a turn b/f (as a bluff ldo)

[carrotsnake]

nicholas, if 99 has negative value for you oop, recheck your game

[terp]

i don't cbet AK enough here on the flop in this spot to believably fire turn w/99.

[Jonezycat]

[ QUOTE ]
nicholas, if 99 has negative value for you oop, recheck your game

[/ QUOTE ]


What a dumb statement. To me he looks like he has "checked" his game and came to the conclusion that 99 is hard to play for him out of position so to compensate that he makes the hand EASIER to play EARLIER in the hand to help him with his decision making. Not everyone plays like you do or as well as you for that matter, but swinging your epeen is dumb, especially on a message board where everyone is trying to help each otehr refine their game.

[ikestoys]

bleh, are we really having a discussion on whether or not to 3bet a button raise with 99? frankly thats ridiculous, this guys opening range on the button isn't 19/17, nor is every 19/17 a good player