Ever +EV to fold KK in a cash game?

[OnTheRize]

[ QUOTE ]
Ontherize , just give it up .

You should never say never in poker , and so if you think it's "always" correct to call with pocket kings , then maybe you read the wrong poker books .

[/ QUOTE ]

.01% of the time someone has aces and shoved 5,000 into a 60$ pot. 90 times the pot is not a play you see every day. More like, once a year.

[jackflashdrive]

It can be easy to fold KK if you have the right information. E.g., Straightforward player, you've not seen him 3-bet PF yet, you have seen him flat call raises with AK/QQ, low aggression, low PFR.

[ev_slave]

In answer to the initial question: yes.

Example: A HUGE chip leader who has been playing tight in a live .5/1 game faces a raise, looks at his cards, then says "I'm all in." He basically dares anyone to try to get his chips. He's not the type to do this for fun, everyone suspects Aces. Button start looking at his cards and flipping out. "Dammit! Aces?!" He starts making a fuss for about 2 minutes, then calls. Button has KK, the other guy has AA just like he had broadcasted, and AA holds up to take the pot. The button very clearly could've saved money (and EV) by folding for FREE instead of losing $200.

At any rate, I enjoyed reading the 50+ poster telling the 4000+ poster to "read a book." AHAHAHAHAHAHA. I'll leave everyone with a quote that is very good to think about when you start considering the maths of a situation:

"Mathematics in any of its applied fields is a wonderful servant but a very bad master."
-Kenneth Boulding

[M4TT]

[ QUOTE ]
Your pretty wrong. Reading a book might help you some.

[/ QUOTE ]
How brilliantly ironic [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Mike Kelley]

Yes it is.

[6471849653]

The third raise could mean aces and in cases the first raise means a big pair, and as you are holding KK the hands he can have may be only QQ or AA, and even if he has the QQ, one is not doing anything wrong folding the KK, until the pot odds are there.

In case it's possible to get rid of the KK, one might have made a mistake by reraising with the KK as one likely would have done better by cold calling with it instead and get money from e.g. the QQ and not lose the entire stack to the AA if he just sells it.

[Niediam]

A hand I played today. Recently joined the table so no real reads but villian hasn't raised preflop for the 18 hands we have played. Notice that I'm about 240BBs deep.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.15/$0.30 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

Hero (CO): $71.55
BTN: $12.30
SB: $46.55
BB: $51
UTG: $119.75
MP: $54.45

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $0.30, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.50</font>, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.35, 2 folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $5.70</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $20</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">UTG raises to $119.75 and is All-In</font>, Hero ???

[mbsocc1346]

Hero????????

Calls! Because statistically the odds of him having AA are so slim to where this is a positive EV play every time. You will get shown AA far less than AK, KK, QQ or even JJ, AQ.

[Niediam]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero????????

Calls! Because statistically the odds of him having AA are so slim to where this is a positive EV play every time. You will get shown AA far less than AK, KK, QQ or even JJ, AQ.

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I'll bet anything villian has AA far more than AQ and JJ combined. The question really is how often he is going to have QQ or AK.

[Muppet Man]

you are ahead in the long run if you call everytime

you +ev against most all of your villains raising hands