TT in annoying spot

[jballer88]

i like that 3b flop shove turn line. stackadonk isnt that great here bc hes checking behind too often on the turn unless hes really crazy

[Maulik]

The lines that scare out mid-pairs imo are 3-betting the flop and leading turn. I'd rather try stacking-a-donk on the turn, if a bet doesn't go in, we can value-bet the river without risking losing our action.

[Wardfish]

I like to get the money in on the flop against this villain. Sometimes we are good, sometimes not, but I really dont see it as a big mistake to get the money in.

Also, it adds to a strong image and stops people playing back at us with worse hands, and calling our raises in position to take it away after the flop.

[aislephive]

Usually I shove flop here, but I'm trying to take some different lines because it seems like people aren't bluffing as much as I expect them to.

I just called.

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, he bets $185. Meh?

[rand]

u check, he bets 185 --> u fold

[AragornX151]

What was your plan when you called the flop? The jack shouldn't change anything, unless he was on a pure steal with QJs or something, or you were already losing to JJ. It might make 88 less likely to call a shove, I guess, but that's it--he's unlikely to have J6 or something. I like a c/shove here. With his line and stats, I think you're good here too often to fold. If stacks were deeper, I'd probably give it up.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
im not one of those mean guys that makes fun of idiots...but this is all pretty bad

checking the flop gives up so much value and is sooooooooo exploitable


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy to be made fun of, thank you.

If you want to manage the pot size, and you think he'll bet way more hands that you beat then the number hands with which he'll raise, then you actually get more value by c/r'ing to $85 (or whatever) yourself on the flop as opposed to bet/call (as in OP).

And how would you exploit a check on the flop? By betting more hands that TT beats with a plan to push the turn when bet into with K-high or 44?

My point is that betting out on a dry board doesn't gain much value if you expect your aggressive post-flop opponent to either fold or raise, but rarely call.

If you check, the worst that happens is that he checks behind - giving him one free card that is unlikely to help him, but it probably won't help you either. You still end up where the OP ended up by bet/calling, but the pot is much smaller at the turn.

How would you exploit a check if you had 44, for example, or KQs? That seems pretty risky since you don't know if you really can push the preflop raiser off his hand. The check does not necessarily mean weakness if it's used to induce bluffs or manage pot size.

Where is the obvious value in auto-cb'ing coming from if you expect he'll either fold or raise when you bet, but almost never call?

This is a different matter if you think villain floats light a lot. Or if he way overplays bad hands. But it seems that TT as an overpair here isn't worth getting all-in by the turn, or even losing 1/2 your stack before folding. And calling the raise on the flop and c/f'ing the turn just gives up the amount he called on the flop.

So, I just don't see the huge value in betting out if villain will almost always bet if you check (allowing you to get the amount of his bet if you c/c then bet turn or if you c/r the flop) as opposed to betting out where he will always fold or raise (putting OP in the awkward position he posted).

And I know I'm an idiot, so try to avoid the ad hominem. That fact is well established. And feel free to ignore the idea of c/c then bet line as well as a c/r line on the flop. But I think it is an interesting alternative worth consideration vs very aggressive post-flop opponents who never just call cbs.

[astro]

as played c/push turn if he is agressive, if he' not, just fold

[I rebluff you]

Some of the advice above is just awful.

You should be ahead most of the time on the flop here so make a good, decent raise. If he calls consider shoving turn depending what card falls. He coldcalled you on the button PF so it's unlikely he has you beat. Even a shove here is not terrible at all.

Call flop then check turn = what you do if you like giving money away.

[Wardfish]

[ QUOTE ]
u check, he bets 185 --> u fold

[/ QUOTE ]

So, basically we say the villain "I'm really not sure where I am here. Tell you what, you bet again and you can take it. Have a nice day!" Seems a very weak (exploitable) line to me.

Better lines would be
(1) to limp pre-flop and play only if we flop a set (assuming the board isnt too scary!)
(2) stay in bed- too many bad things can happen if we leave the comfort of our own bed