Help me battle my teacher's indoctrination

[lehighguy]

I don't know enough about Enron. Some of the problems may go all the way back to our government conception of a corporation. I'll let others comment on this.

Sub-prime lending is a natural result of moral hazard created by government in the first place.

First in the way the Fed runs out monetary policy to promote borrowing and spending over saving. This might take a lot of study and I guarantee your professor wouldn't understand it.

Second is our governments favoring of mortgage debt through interest tax deductions amongst a variety of other subsidies. The governement favors people who take out giant mortgages.

Third is our government has created an atmosphere were people expect to be bailed out, leading to moral hazard and a propensity to take risks. Ask about the S+L crises in the 80s, the LTCM bailout in '98, the "Greenspan put". Recentely our new Fed chief slashed rates 50bp, devauling the savings of Americans to bailout the sub-prime crowd, no doubt ensuring people will engage in the same practices next decade expecting another bailout.

Social Security is a giant ponzi scheme. The program uses the same accounting as Enron. If the government was a private entity it would have been shut down for massive fraud related to these programs.

Your professor likely advoates reduced military spending to pay for SS and Medicare. In addition to not being enough a much better question to ask is why such funds should go to SS and Medicare when they can be given back to the people through lower taxes. People can then invest that money for thier own retirement, ensuring money is actually there for thier retirement rather then being squandered by the governemnt.

Scandanavia does great because it is sitting on as much oil as Saudi Arabia. They are better run the the rest of Europe due to thier smaller size, but they suffer from many of the same demographic problems and if not for the oil they would have the same financial problems as France. France is a good example of how [censored] things would be with socialism in America.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know enough about Enron. Some of the problems may go all the way back to our government conception of a corporation. I'll let others comment on this.

Sub-prime lending is a natural result of moral hazard created by government in the first place. <font color="red"> irrelvant interjection of your own morality</font>

First in the way the Fed runs out monetary policy to promote borrowing and spending over saving. This might take a lot of study and I guarantee your professor wouldn't understand it. <font color="red"> do you? monetary policy favors moderate inflation over risk of deflation, which can promote borrowing. So what? </font>

Second is our governments favoring of mortgage debt through interest tax deductions amongst a variety of other subsidies. The governement favors people who take out giant mortgages. <font color="red">the mortgage issue itself is no different than the first issue of favoring debt over savings. if individuals cant afford a home without a mortgage deduction, they rent, and the landlord takes a deduction for his mortgage. the real import of the mortgage deduction is that it does encourage individual ownership, which in turn helps drive the economy since people naturally spend more on their own home than they would on a rental property </font>

Third is our government has created an atmosphere were people expect to be bailed out, leading to moral hazard and a propensity to take risks. Ask about the S+L crises in the 80s, the LTCM bailout in '98, the "Greenspan put". <font color="red">I dont think there is a single company that bases a single decision based on expectation of a bailout </font> Recentely our new Fed chief slashed rates 50bp, devauling the savings of Americans to bailout the sub-prime crowd, no doubt ensuring people will engage in the same practices next decade expecting another bailout. <font color="red"> how is it a bailout of the subprime crowd? be specific. why do you think that a reduction in interest rates wasnt appropriate given other economic conditions? </font>

Social Security is a giant ponzi scheme. <font color="red"> no its not</font> The program uses the same accounting as Enron. <font color="red">no it doesnt, but its irrelevant if it did. Its not the accounting system that caused Enrons failure it was greed. </font> If the government was a private entity it would have been shut down for massive fraud related to these programs. <font color="red"> no it wouldnt, because government accounting is not the same as GAAP and shouldnt be for several reasons </font>

Your professor likely advoates reduced military spending to pay for SS and Medicare. In addition to not being enough a much better question to ask is why such funds should go to SS and Medicare when they can be given back to the people through lower taxes. People can then invest that money for thier own retirement, ensuring money is actually there for thier retirement rather then being squandered by the governemnt. <font color="red"> one has nothing to do with the other, conflating them is just political rhetoric </font>

Scandanavia does great because it is sitting on as much oil as Saudi Arabia. They are better run the the rest of Europe due to thier smaller size, but they suffer from many of the same demographic problems and if not for the oil they would have the same financial problems as France. France is a good example of how [censored] things would be with socialism in America.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red">you got one right, congrats </font>

Lehigh should be embarassed if this the quality of thinking they turn out.

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know enough about Enron. Some of the problems may go all the way back to our government conception of a corporation. I'll let others comment on this.

Sub-prime lending is a natural result of moral hazard created by government in the first place. <font color="red"> irrelvant interjection of your own morality</font>

First in the way the Fed runs out monetary policy to promote borrowing and spending over saving. This might take a lot of study and I guarantee your professor wouldn't understand it. <font color="red"> do you? monetary policy favors moderate inflation over risk of deflation, which can promote borrowing. So what? </font>

Second is our governments favoring of mortgage debt through interest tax deductions amongst a variety of other subsidies. The governement favors people who take out giant mortgages. <font color="red">the mortgage issue itself is no different than the first issue of favoring debt over savings. if individuals cant afford a home without a mortgage deduction, they rent, and the landlord takes a deduction for his mortgage. the real import of the mortgage deduction is that it does encourage individual ownership, which in turn helps drive the economy since people naturally spend more on their own home than they would on a rental property </font>

Third is our government has created an atmosphere were people expect to be bailed out, leading to moral hazard and a propensity to take risks. Ask about the S+L crises in the 80s, the LTCM bailout in '98, the "Greenspan put". <font color="red">I dont think there is a single company that bases a single decision based on expectation of a bailout </font> Recentely our new Fed chief slashed rates 50bp, devauling the savings of Americans to bailout the sub-prime crowd, no doubt ensuring people will engage in the same practices next decade expecting another bailout. <font color="red"> how is it a bailout of the subprime crowd? be specific. why do you think that a reduction in interest rates wasnt appropriate given other economic conditions? </font>

Social Security is a giant ponzi scheme. <font color="red"> no its not</font> The program uses the same accounting as Enron. <font color="red">no it doesnt, but its irrelevant if it did. Its not the accounting system that caused Enrons failure it was greed. </font> If the government was a private entity it would have been shut down for massive fraud related to these programs. <font color="red"> no it wouldnt, because government accounting is not the same as GAAP and shouldnt be for several reasons </font>

Your professor likely advoates reduced military spending to pay for SS and Medicare. In addition to not being enough a much better question to ask is why such funds should go to SS and Medicare when they can be given back to the people through lower taxes. People can then invest that money for thier own retirement, ensuring money is actually there for thier retirement rather then being squandered by the governemnt. <font color="red"> one has nothing to do with the other, conflating them is just political rhetoric </font>

Scandanavia does great because it is sitting on as much oil as Saudi Arabia. They are better run the the rest of Europe due to thier smaller size, but they suffer from many of the same demographic problems and if not for the oil they would have the same financial problems as France. France is a good example of how [censored] things would be with socialism in America.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red">you got one right, congrats </font>

Lehigh should be embarassed if this the quality of thinking they turn out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd you say that considering you don't even know what moral hazard means. quote:
him: "Sub-prime lending is a natural result of moral hazard created by government in the first place."
you: " irrelvant interjection of your own morality"

hint: He's not making a moral judgment by identifying a moral hazard. It's a specific terms that describes a specific kind of financial or public policy situation.

natedogg

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty good intro to the Enron fiasco

Enron

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting thumbnail. But wasn't the main thing with enron fraud?

synopsis:
government basically forced, via regulation, the companies to favor short term contracts over long term, while at the same time discouraging new power plant investment. so costs went up when rates they could charge were fixed.
28:30 alludes to "under the table" stuff
30:00 discusses enron accounting "fraud" allowed by government
31:00 everyinhg enron did was approved by gov regulatory
32-36 long discussion of bribery? says bribery ok?
38 says gov regs let enron have cookable or noncookable books up until almost the end (I guess at end enron cooked books in non gov reg approved manner)
39 says gov to blame cause regulators took bribes
41 says US gov cooks it own books so hypocritical
45 interesting point, enron ceo's "should have known" but gov regulators "didn't know"
-------------------
main point i guess was that government overregulation leads to bad business and corruption.


seemed more like an apology rather than an explanation.

[Seether]

The other class he teaches is an introduction to foreign relations class. I am not trying to get him fired, but I would like for some of my classmates to understand that maybe they shouldn't take his words as gospel simply for the sake that he is a teacher (which I feel many do).

He happens to be Hungarian and immigrated many years ago, so I feel that his roots likely have a huge effect on his opinions.

[PLOlover]

SS is a good question.

can I answer this. first in dollars then in inflation adjusted dollars maybe.

a guy works and pays SS from 1960-90, retires and draws benefits from 1990-2005, then dies.

how much he pay in at max rate? min rate?
how much he draw out if he paid max? min?

single?married?

in actual dollar amounts? in inflation constant dollars?

[PLOlover]

not sure if this is in inflation adjusted dollars.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/feature...;CL_FIRSTTIME=1

[ QUOTE ]
You can expect to pay $290,392 in Social Security taxes over your working life for retirement and survivors benefits. For those taxes, you can expect to receive $2,088 a month in Social Security retirement benefits. Your rate of return under today's Social Security is 1.03%.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Customize your data for better results by clicking on the pencil icons in the "Your Information" box.
Information Value Edit
Age: 65 Edit
Gender: Male Edit
Zip Code: — Edit
Current Earnings: $100,000 Edit
Life Expectancy: 81.00 yrs Edit
Retirement Age: 66.00 Edit

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/feature...;CL_FIRSTTIME=1

[ QUOTE ]
You can expect to pay $61,931 in Social Security taxes over your working life for retirement and survivors benefits. For those taxes, you can expect to receive $855 a month in Social Security retirement benefits. Your rate of return under today's Social Security is 3.38%.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Customize your data for better results by clicking on the pencil icons in the "Your Information" box.
Information Value Edit
Age: 65 Edit
Gender: Male Edit
Zip Code: — Edit
Current Earnings: $15,000 Edit
Life Expectancy: 81.00 yrs Edit
Retirement Age: 66.00 Edit

[/ QUOTE ]

so 15 years retirement
paid in max min
290k 61k
15 year payout max min
376k 154k

so 10 years retirement
paid in max min
290k 61k
10 year payout max min
250k 103k

[Low Key]

..Zomg I went to college and they tried to show me a point of view I don't already belive in! ZONOES!! Quick, call Sean Hannity and get that kid who had to watch An Inconvenient Truth on the air with me!

[ QUOTE ]
He happens to be Hungarian and immigrated many years ago, so I feel that his roots likely have a huge effect on his opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just like yours do.

[ QUOTE ]
maybe they shouldn't take his words as gospel simply for the sake that he is a teacher (which I feel many do)

[/ QUOTE ]
If you really feel it's that important, why not just sit down with each of them and have that talk where you explain how one person can't possibly know everything.

My last PolSci class had a small hint of conservatives, a dab of liberals, a large cross section of people who really could care less what the teacher was talking about. (My teacher happened to be liberal, but he always pointed out when he was inserting his particular bias)

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
SS is a good question.

can I answer this. first in dollars then in inflation adjusted dollars maybe.

a guy works and pays SS from 1960-90, retires and draws benefits from 1990-2005, then dies.

how much he pay in at max rate? min rate?
how much he draw out if he paid max? min?

single?married?

in actual dollar amounts? in inflation constant dollars?

[/ QUOTE ]

Starts working at 20 and retires 30 years later at 50? That's some damned early retirement.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
..Zomg I went to college and they tried to show me a point of view I don't already belive in! ZONOES!! Quick, call Sean Hannity and get that kid who had to watch An Inconvenient Truth on the air with me!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

(My teacher happened to be liberal, but he always pointed out when he was inserting his particular bias)

[/ QUOTE ]

So at the beginning of your post you seem to be defending this poor excuse for a teacher, but at the end you point out the right way to teach. Which is it? If the teacher "pointed out when he was inserting his particular bias," the OP wouldn't have posted here!