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#22
10-02-2007, 11:57 AM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
The funny thing is, everyone saying bet, you're missing out on one of the best reasons for the shove. the pot is TINY. even with two streets of value, the pot is still tiny.
How much would you bet on the turn and river? What if the river is a Queen. What about Q spades? How do you play OOP here? Now that you see how small these bets are, knowing there is no hand better then mine, and there are certain calls i'll still get at this level, this seems like an obvious move. I mean, lets say you were on this turn and you had a hand like K5 (which many of these donks do) That turn comes out, you fold the nuts? There is no hand here i'm not profitable againts, and at this level, there are many that still call with hands like AT. Plus, most of these donks slowplay to the death. If one called and showed me TT i wouldn't have thought it odd at this level. As i said though, no one had a King, but i did get called by AT. Thought it was interesting, and posted the hand. 
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#23
10-02-2007, 11:59 AM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
i dont like this play for the simple fact that if villain also has a King then all the money is going in anyway. You're still frerolling and do not need to shove. You only need to make a normal sized bet, the nut straight should raise you here on the river at which point you 3bet and it all goes in. So if the money is inevitably going in where villain also has the nuts, then worry about the times he doesnt and try to get some value here. Villain could hold a weaker flush draw, and hit on the river or potentially even try to bluff you on the river. You're missing out on a bunch of value over the long run by making this play.
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#24
10-02-2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
[ QUOTE ]
i dont like this play for the simple fact that if villain also has a King then all the money is going in anyway. You're still frerolling and do not need to shove. You only need to make a normal sized bet, the nut straight should raise you here on the river at which point you 3bet and it all goes in. So if the money is inevitably going in where villain also has the nuts, then worry about the times he doesnt and try to get some value here. Villain could hold a weaker flush draw, and hit on the river or potentially even try to bluff you on the river. You're missing out on a bunch of value over the long run by making this play. [/ QUOTE ] And how much is a normal sized bet? And how do you play if river is a queen and you bet (how much here) and he shoves? (just one example)
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#26
10-02-2007, 12:27 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
[ QUOTE ]
i dont like this play for the simple fact that if villain also has a King then all the money is going in anyway. You're still frerolling and do not need to shove. You only need to make a normal sized bet, the nut straight should raise you here on the river at which point you 3bet and it all goes in. So if the money is inevitably going in where villain also has the nuts, then worry about the times he doesnt and try to get some value here. Villain could hold a weaker flush draw, and hit on the river or potentially even try to bluff you on the river. You're missing out on a bunch of value over the long run by making this play. [/ QUOTE ] Agree- missing huge amount of value over long run. Sure you got a caller this time but majority of time you'll win the tiny pot. I don't necessarily look at the $$$ in the pot because at NL10- everything sucks, but I look at the big bets won. And value betting here (to string along the draws and top pairs) will get you more over the long run than shoving everytime you are garunteed a split.
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#27
10-02-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
A normal sized bet would be anywhere from 2/3 to full pot both on the turn and the river. Whether or not to call a shove on the river is pretty read dependant should the board pair. By shoving as you did, with the rake you're either taking down a tiny pot where villain has no King and chopping a lot of the other times where you dont hit a spade, and losing to the rake.
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#28
10-02-2007, 01:20 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You are not freerolling, DUCY? [/ QUOTE ] Surely we're ahead or freerolling? What am I missing? [/ QUOTE ] I suppose a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which gives villain quads or a FH. [/ QUOTE ] If he gets quads or a FH then we were ahead on the flop.
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#29
10-02-2007, 01:31 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
I don't think the money's always going in if the flush hits. First, someone likely has two pair or trips on the turn and they're still live. A lot of bad cards can come on the river. They might not fold to his shove on the turn anyways. Second of all, I don't think many people are going to get allin if a spade hits the river.
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#30
10-02-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: Freerolling baby!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You are not freerolling, DUCY? [/ QUOTE ] Surely we're ahead or freerolling? What am I missing? [/ QUOTE ] I suppose a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which gives villain quads or a FH. [/ QUOTE ] And what holdings will be hitting quads? Freerolling comes from the situation witht he King. I invite all other calls here with a shove, but i am unable to price them out with any bet.
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