This never works. Why does this never work?

manupod · #1 10-02-2007, 01:04 PM

Villain is 24/15/3 over 300 hands, has raised enough of my cbets for me to think he's doing it with a ride range. But keep in mind that the flop is 4 ways so I'm not sure leading is best. He might be taking a stab at it, so I'm expecting the turn to be checked back a lot, or he'll bet and I'll have to call- but I rarely expect to be shoved on when I lead and it gives me fold equity, etc.

Thoughts on this and a better way perhaps?

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($253.43)
UTG ($74)
MP ($425.65)
Offtheheezymanupeezy ($205.05)
Button ($197)
SB ($79)

Preflop: Offtheheezymanupeezy is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, Offtheheezymanupeezy raises to $8, Button calls $8, SB calls $7, BB calls $6.

Flop: ($32) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Offtheheezymanupeezy checks, Button bets $16, SB folds, BB folds, Offtheheezymanupeezy calls $16.

Turn: ($64) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Offtheheezymanupeezy bets $39, Button calls $39.

River: ($142) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Offtheheezymanupeezy checks or shoves??

Hince · #2 10-02-2007, 01:07 PM

You raise preflop, c/c the flop then lead the turn on a jack??? What are you representing?

The turn changes nothing and almost always gets called by better.

If you really must semi-bluff this hand, c/r the turn.

SnglMaltScotch · #3 10-02-2007, 01:13 PM

I would have c/r the turn. It accomplishes 2 things. It possibly folds a weak Q/J from the button if the c/r whiffs on the turn the free card isn't bad either.

Were you going for a b/3b on the turn? If so, bet more so that you can get all in.

SMS

thac · #4 10-02-2007, 01:17 PM

I'd just bet the flop so you can actually rep a queen or an overpair or a set, you don't really rep anything strong with a c/c and 1/2 pot bet on turn.

SB/BB unlikely have anything and if they c/r you can fold or call or whatever, but if BTN raises your c-bet and the blinds fold you can shove since he's raising your c-bets with a wide range.

I think it's more of a reason to bet flop if he's been raising you wide - what would you do with AQ there? Probably bet to build a pot right?

Montezuma21 · #5 10-02-2007, 01:19 PM

If you bet turn i think you have to make it a little larger--> like $45; though TBH i might be tempted to CRAI, don't know if that's a leak.

manupod · #6 10-02-2007, 01:20 PM

Here was my thinking- a flop bet sucks. Because it's 4 way and I have a hand that I want to see some more cards with and getting raised isn't great. So it's kind of a bluff (?) maybe not, I dunno. On the turn I didn't want him to pot it, and I wanted to get some FE rather than c/c (and build a pot in case he checks back) since I have a ton of outs. I'd have shoved if he raised. I know I don't really rep anything, but for him to take a 1/2 pot stab on the flop I don't think he has a lot most of the time either. Maybe a c/r all in is better here

ikestoys · #7 10-02-2007, 01:22 PM

bet flop

/thread

thac · #8 10-02-2007, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here was my thinking- a flop bet sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If anyone has a queen, we have 47% equity if they don't have KQ. If they don't have anything, I don't want an ace to come to give them the best hand for free. If they have a set, money was going in anyways, you should try and get it in when you have the most equity. If you win a small pot, who care - they likely weren't catching up enough to win a big pot (maybe the Ad, the diamond they need to make a set).

Just bet the flop.

RFitz23 · #9 10-02-2007, 01:30 PM

You need to bet the flop here without question. You want to be betting not representing the flush, leave some ambiguity to what you have. Hopefully you get a call not a raise, cause a cold call on the flop could lead to some thinking weakness. As always could re pop, which ehh I try not to do unless have good read on player. Regardless leading on the flop allows you multiple options on turn. BET FLOP

vimpan · #10 10-02-2007, 01:33 PM

Bet flop, as played with C/C I´d rather CRAI turn then lead for 1/2-pot...