I want to get started

[rollllon]

So I've looked into online poker and I really want to get started and get good at it. I have a basic knowledge of how poker works, and I read Ed miller and david slansky's short stake holdem book to hopefully expand on that knowledge. There's a couple of things that I'm unclear on and some things I want to know..

Well, first of all I want to know if I'm good enough. I've played some play money games and did ok, making some pretty stable profit of play money. What I want to know is what I need to know in order to be good. I know what poker is, a game of luck, and that in order to win long term I shouldn't look at the short term results. I should try to play poker theoretically. It seems to me that I just need to know how to calculate pot odds and apply it well, stick to play cards that are of value, play loose when the pot is big and tight when the pot is small, and just try to get reads on your opponents to see if I'm drawing dead. Is this about correct? Or is there something more that I need to know to be a winning player?

Also, I'm confused about some concepts that was brought up in the book I mentioned. It said to keep raising or betting even if you're drawing dead if the pot is big enough. Is this really a good idea? Also, I'm not clear about the purpose of raising. So the book says it's to maximize your profits or to protect your hand, but does that mean I should raise every time I get a good hand, like K 10 to K K? And then just go ahead and reraise if someone raised previously? What if I suspect that someone has a better hand, should I still raising if the pot size justifies it?

That book seemed to promote very aggressive playing. In what situations should I be calling, then? How about "limping" in? Is that ever a good idea to limp in if I have a mediocre hand? Or should I just go ahead and fold? Is there a way people calculate pot odds preflop, or do they just follow a general guideline of which hands to fold with, call with, and raise with?

Anyways I'd very much appreciate if anyone could enlighten me. I'm very new at this, but I'm very eager to learn. I really want to become good enough to do this for a living. How hard would you say that would be? If you think there's anything else I should know that would help me, please let me know, too.

Thank you!

[Rek]

Poker is NOT a game of luck. Re-read your books and then read some more.

[rollllon]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is NOT a game of luck. Re-read your books and then read some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well what I meant by a game of luck is there's a huge luck element involved, and short term poker is very luck based. But I understand that poker is all strategy from a long term point of view.

[Hitsurume]

Poker is a game of percentages; everyone gets dealt the same cards, its up to the player how they play those cards, wether bad or good.

So far you have a good mindset, you've read a book, sought the help of this forum and have tried to experiment on some of the sites out there. The real thing is very different though, so untill you get your hands into real money play, you won't know till you try it.

I'm currently around where you are, i'm playing 10NL on FTP and am just slowly moving up the ranks and one thing i've learned so far is that pot odds and everything eventually become natural to a person and its pretty easy to grasp, the hard part is dealing with VARIANCE and TILT which come hand in hand and that is something that is hard to learn from playing with fake money.

But stick around the site, all the information is out there, you just gotto ask the right questions and look at the right spots to get it.

[Lego05]

Hmm. Poker's not a game of luck. Over a short time period results can be skewed due to the luck aspect. But in the long run it's all abot your skill.

So many poor thoughts in that paragraph:

Raising and betting when you know you are drawing dead is only good if you think you can make the other guy fold. Just cause the pot is w/e size is no reason to put more money in when you can't win a showdown.


You should raise every time you have KK (assuming pre-flop and assuming stacks aren't like greater than like 250BB's). However you should not raise everytime you have KT although you should raise sometimes. This part of your paragraph is very situationally dependent.

if you are playing 6 max cash games open limping is pretty much always bad although ocassionally limping behind 2 or so other limpers could be good usually with suited connectors or sometimes a small pocket pair.


To do this for a living starting where it seems you are I say would be very difficult. However, it would still be possible although it depends what kind of living you want. You can conceivably make a living playing as low as 25NL (you aren't gonna be anywhere near rich though)....although paying for health insurance and planning for retirement might get pretty rough especially the retirement part so you better stay sharp your whole life....or move up in games somewhere.


I don't know what game you want to play. Assuming NL holdem cash games and more specifically at 6 handed tables this should be enough reading to keep you busy and help you to improve. Also post hands in the relevant strategy forums to get advice:

http://www.pr0crast.com/2+2.NL.Anthology.v1.htm


Here are some threads from the above anthology link that I think are specifically important:


6 Max fundamentals:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...t=1#Post7827947


As I said don't open limp:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...p;vc=1&nt=5



Blind stealing
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5348855


Blind stealing Level 2:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=6073737


Don't slowplay a lot:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=3740388


Suited connectors, implied odds, and you:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

Note: There's also a good one like the above for pocket pairs that is somehow not in this anthology and I'm not quite sure where to find it. It boils down to though thtat you need to on average make 11.7 times your pre-flop investment the times you flop a set in order to be able to make the pre-flop call for set value alone. Just have to trust me there as I don't have the math handy.



Baluga Theorem (Was extremely helpful to me in helping me not to stack off lighter than I should):
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=6607951



Note: Those are only in the order that they appear going from top to bottom in the anthology so no order of importace. I would also suggest going through a few of the threads under continuation betting as this is likely to be something that isn't done as well as it could be done. Headsup you should c-bet like 99.9% of the time but 3way it starts to become a bit trickier.


Also so many other threads in that anthology are so valuable so don't forget about them.



So good luck and don't forget to post hands you play in the appropriate strategy forum.



P.S.

Getting poker tracker will help keep track of your game...and if you get a hud also you can overlay stats of opponents right on the table.




P.P.S.

Don't quit your job.

Good luck though.

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Poker is NOT a game of luck. Re-read your books and then read some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well what I meant by a game of luck is there's a huge luck element involved, and short term poker is very luck based. But I understand that poker is all strategy from a long term point of view.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a luck element short term I concede that and varience is a bitch. But if you have read some books and you have found this forum you ought to know that bankroll management is key for long term success. There are numerous posts on this if you search.

There is no substitution for actual play so you need to bite the bullet and play micros (if thats all you can afford) under proper bankroll management. Any problems post here and we will try to assist.

No short cuts I'm afraid but you seem to have started responsibly. Sorry, I thought this was a thinly disguised post on poker being lucky from a 1st poster.

Good "luck" at the tables

[rollllon]

Thanks for the replies. I will start playing some micros and try to apply what I've read into my game. This is a hard game to learn because we get rewarded for making incorrect decisions and punished for making the right decisions, so I suppose I have a lot of reading to do.

one more thing though, I was originally planning on playing limit, but would no limit be a better idea? Is no limit something that most people are moving on to now?

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. I will start playing some micros and try to apply what I've read into my game. This is a hard game to learn because we get rewarded for making incorrect decisions and punished for making the right decisions, so I suppose I have a lot of reading to do.

one more thing though, I was originally planning on playing limit, but would no limit be a better idea? Is no limit something that most people are moving on to now?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to change your mindset - you get rewarded for making the right decisions long term (and poker is long term). If someone calls your bet when they didn't have the odds and sucks out on you, it may hurt short term but this is what you want. Read "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky and understand his "Fundamental Theorem of Poker". Great book.

Limit or no-limit? Horses for courses. Try them both and take your pick. Perhaps a little less varience in limit.

[Lego05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. I will start playing some micros and try to apply what I've read into my game. This is a hard game to learn because we get rewarded for making incorrect decisions and punished for making the right decisions, so I suppose I have a lot of reading to do.

one more thing though, I was originally planning on playing limit, but would no limit be a better idea? Is no limit something that most people are moving on to now?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to change your mindset - you get rewarded for making the right decisions long term (and poker is long term). If someone calls your bet when they didn't have the odds and sucks out on you, it may hurt short term but this is what you want. Read "The Theory of Poker" by David Sklansky and understand his "Fundamental Theorem of Poker". Great book.

Limit or no-limit? Horses for courses. Try them both and take your pick. Perhaps a little less varience in limit.

[/ QUOTE ]


I've never played limit seriously and don't know too much about it but I'd guess the other way around variance wise..... I'd guess this is due mostly to being able to more affect the odds on hands by varying bet sizes.


And I am in full agreement on your statement concerning OP's mindset. Sometimes you will lose after making the correct decision, but in the long term you'll win from making the correct decision.

[DontTapTheGlass]

Just to let you know, play money games are nothing like real money games. You can learn about odds and get a good feel for the software with play money, but the players play very differently when real money is at stake.

Best of luck at the tables (but long-term poker results are not based on luck).