Suited aces and connectors

[grunta0]

I posted this on another forum and got zero answers. Hopefully I will have more success here.

How to play suited aces or connectors in ring and tourney ?

If I remember correctly Harrington advocates playing them by position, ie no lower than A9s in ep etc. and folding them to a raise.

In some of Sklansky's books (pertaining to ring) he says to call raises with connectors.

So the question is ...do you fold these to a raise or play them ?
What different strategy should be employed with them in ring and tournament ?

Thanks

[thrasher789]

Both of those hand ranges definatly have alot to do with position. Sadly, as is the answer with almost any poker question, it depends on the table, so there is no clear cut way to play these hands. You really need to know you're opponents and understand how much equity these hands have and how cheap you can see a flop for. There is no reason to try to limp 67s from ep if you know someone is going to make it 5 big blinds behind you, so just fold here. On the other hand, if you are at a table with alot of passive players and seeing flops for cheap it can be equitable to try and catch a favorable flop with these hands from almost any postion. Hope that helped :/

[Cernunnos]

possibly because the answer is it depends, there is no trainer wheel strategy for these hands,
mostly though these hands are best when you are getting good implied odds from a number of opponents.

[JereLock]

I'm confused by the term "suited aces"... it kind of implies two aces of the same suit...

[Nightlight87]

I'm guessing he means Ax suited. But I also thought of AAs when i first read it lol...

[GrumpyB]

I read an interesting article in a Swedish paper on this very topic just this week (no I’m not Swedish, but don’t ask – it’s complicated). I have kept a copy and so for those interested here is a rough translation. (For the original, in Swedish, go to aftonbladet.se and read ‘Dan Glimnes poker school’).


Last week I took up the case of an all-in with 87s that lost to KTo and I promised an analysis.

Well here are some pre-flop matchups worth looking at:

8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 42% / 58%.
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 38% / 62%.
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 33% / 67%.

Note that the connected cards (87) are not enormously better than the unconnected cards (83), and in their turn the suited connectors are not remarkably better than the same cards off suit. In total, the cards have improved from odds of 2 to 1 (for a rag hand like 83 off) via 1.6 to 1 (connected) up to 1.4 to 1 but they are all underdogs to the same hand; AKo.

OK, maybe you complain that in this example your 87s is up against the strongest unpaired, offsuit hand you can have. But take a look at this:

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 41% / 59%.

Your chances SINK because the 10 interferes with some of your straight possibilities. And then this one:

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 48.5% / 49.5% (rest being for a shared pot).

So while you’d hardly dream of going all-in with a rag hand like T3o, this hand is in fact slightly ahead of your 87s.

The truth is that pre-flop all hands with one or two over cards are ahead of your suited connectors. So if you are desperately short-stacked think “high card” rather than “suited connector”. Being connected and suited is a bonus, of course, – but not enough. If you must go all-in it’s better to wait for any Ace rag and hope to be up against a King or Queen, or if you’re lucky – suited connectors.

I liked that. I thought it was worth sharing.

[dirty banana2007]

Thanks GrumpyB,

reading that makes me want to read some more on match-ups, figuring which hands to shove with, or call someone always playing garbage!

[grunta0]

Thanks for the replies and also the added info from Grumpy.
Very interesting.

In all of the books I have read they refer to AXs as suited aces, if this mislead anyone I apologise.

Would you treat them differently in a tourney as opposed to a ring game ?

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
I read an interesting article in a Swedish paper on this very topic just this week (no I’m not Swedish, but don’t ask – it’s complicated). I have kept a copy and so for those interested here is a rough translation. (For the original, in Swedish, go to aftonbladet.se and read ‘Dan Glimnes poker school’).


Last week I took up the case of an all-in with 87s that lost to KTo and I promised an analysis.

Well here are some pre-flop matchups worth looking at:

8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 42% / 58%.
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 38% / 62%.
8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 33% / 67%.

Note that the connected cards (87) are not enormously better than the unconnected cards (83), and in their turn the suited connectors are not remarkably better than the same cards off suit. In total, the cards have improved from odds of 2 to 1 (for a rag hand like 83 off) via 1.6 to 1 (connected) up to 1.4 to 1 but they are all underdogs to the same hand; AKo.

OK, maybe you complain that in this example your 87s is up against the strongest unpaired, offsuit hand you can have. But take a look at this:

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 41% / 59%.

Your chances SINK because the 10 interferes with some of your straight possibilities. And then this one:

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] = 48.5% / 49.5% (rest being for a shared pot).

So while you’d hardly dream of going all-in with a rag hand like T3o, this hand is in fact slightly ahead of your 87s.

The truth is that pre-flop all hands with one or two over cards are ahead of your suited connectors. So if you are desperately short-stacked think “high card” rather than “suited connector”. Being connected and suited is a bonus, of course, – but not enough. If you must go all-in it’s better to wait for any Ace rag and hope to be up against a King or Queen, or if you’re lucky – suited connectors.

I liked that. I thought it was worth sharing.

[/ QUOTE ]

just wanted to point out that this is really only applicable to high blind scenarios i.e. late stages in tournaments, or perhaps poorly structured cash games. don't start calling raises w/ 83o b/c it's 1:2 against AK.

[MustangTC]

One thing to consider in favour of connectors is domination.

At the $5MTTs that I play, desperate players (M<5) are more likely to push hands such as A8 KT QT (generally any two cards over 9) and so hands like A3 T3 etc. become serious underdogs (less than 25% for the T3 to win versus a KT).

Yes you can say its unlikely you will be dominated but as we all know, if you find yourself short stacked in fit or fold territory then it's very likely you will have to push all in pfe-flop more than once on your way back to the top, thus making it very likely you will get dominated once playing one of these hands.

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

In my opinion there are two scales of unpaired hands when considering pushing, A-T being the upper set and 9-2 in the lower. When pushing I would consider 98 but not T9 because of the psychological effect I believe that having two 10+ cards has on a large stack in search of short stacks to bust.

-MustangTC