Q8 rivers top pair in orphan pot

[Willem_D]

SB and CO are both loose-passive. UTG+1 is new to the table but give his open-limp, he probably bad also.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

With slightly tighter opponents and without the flush draw on the board, I might have taken a shot here.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

Bet here?

[rzk]

b/f's against passives. they will call with more worse hands than they bet if you check.

[Robin Foolz]

i'm not sure i like your thinking on the turn. the pot is very small so your bluff would have to work a lot. a 2bb pot, second to act in a 4 way lineup is bleh. i wouldn't bet that turn with your hand in this spot, like ever.

[topspinner]

I guess I am missing something, why wouldn't you bet. Noone has showed strength. Might get called down with an A high. No draws got there....people call the river with all kinds of weak hands.

[Gurravasa]

The idea of bluffing Q-high against 4 opponents in a microscopic pot is just a bad idea. Doesn't matter what cards or what opponents is just no value.

If you consider bluffing at turn why do you consider anything else than betting river?

[TheHip41]

i bet.

if it goes like this, bet, call, raise, I fold

If I bet, andsomeone raises and everyone else folds, I call

[Willem_D]

A bluff on the turn works more often than you'd think. The fact that the pot is so small works in my favor since people don't even have enough odds to draw to a flush. Since I got a free play from the BB, I can easily have a 4. My cards don't matter here, what matters is that my opponents think they are drawing almost dead in a very small pot.

My thinking on the river was this: Nobody has 9x since even these passive opponents bet the flop with that (or at least the turn). Same goes for 7x, the may not bet the flop but the probably still bet the turn. While I have top pair here, what worse hands are going to call a bet here? I may get curiosity calls from ace-high (or 55,66) but that's it, maybe another Qx.

problem is that there are almost no hands which are going to bet here, for exactly the same reasons that they won't call. Still, a bet here is better than a check-call since there are slightly more hands which are going to call a bet compared to hands that will bet themselves.

Anyway, I checked, CO bets, I call and CO shows A6o. (He probably would have called also if I had bet). I should have bet here but the mistake was very small.

[Gurravasa]

[ QUOTE ]
A bluff on the turn works more often than you'd think. The fact that the pot is so small works in my favor since people don't even have enough odds to draw to a flush. Since I got a free play from the BB, I can easily have a 4. My cards don't matter here, what matters is that my opponents think they are drawing almost dead in a very small pot.

My thinking on the river was this: Nobody has 9x since even these passive opponents bet the flop with that (or at least the turn). Same goes for 7x, the may not bet the flop but the probably still bet the turn. While I have top pair here, what worse hands are going to call a bet here? I may get curiosity calls from ace-high (or 55,66) but that's it, maybe another Qx.

problem is that there are almost no hands which are going to bet here, for exactly the same reasons that they won't call. Still, a bet here is better than a check-call since there are slightly more hands which are going to call a bet compared to hands that will bet themselves.

Anyway, I checked, CO bets, I call and CO shows A6o. (He probably would have called also if I had bet). I should have bet here but the mistake was very small.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate almost everything in this post. Not betting river and getting called by Ax is a big mistake. And bluffing turn in tiny multiwaypot is very bad. Your goal is not to win many pots it's to win a lot of money. The award of succeeding with the bluff is almost non-existing... The reward of valuebetting river is very real...

[TheGoon]

If you want a good win rate at SSHE value betting the river is crucial. Your opponents could easily have a 7,9 or a small pocket pair and call you bet.The turn bluff would be spew as well, all three opponents are never folding at these stake and you'll often have to fire again on the river to take the pot down. Your risk/reward ratio is very poor.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
A bluff on the turn works more often than you'd think. The fact that the pot is so small works in my favor since people don't even have enough odds to draw to a flush. Since I got a free play from the BB, I can easily have a 4. My cards don't matter here, what matters is that my opponents think they are drawing almost dead in a very small pot.

My thinking on the river was this: Nobody has 9x since even these passive opponents bet the flop with that (or at least the turn). Same goes for 7x, the may not bet the flop but the probably still bet the turn. While I have top pair here, what worse hands are going to call a bet here? I may get curiosity calls from ace-high (or 55,66) but that's it, maybe another Qx.

problem is that there are almost no hands which are going to bet here, for exactly the same reasons that they won't call. Still, a bet here is better than a check-call since there are slightly more hands which are going to call a bet compared to hands that will bet themselves.

Anyway, I checked, CO bets, I call and CO shows A6o. (He probably would have called also if I had bet). I should have bet here but the mistake was very small.

[/ QUOTE ]


uh, ppl that have a flush draw aren't folding. Another thing, you say they don't have odds to draw to the flush, I say you can't call the turn when they raise with their flush draw.

checking this river is horrific.

Just read some more post and keep studying.