$11 A10 on broadway flop

[stu-unger]

this is a spot ive gotten in a few times with the same hand and similar flops and i think im playing it fine, but the results have been real ugly. is this ok

effective stack 1500
blinds 15/30
dealt to hero A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in somewhere between MP3-CO

pre flop: 2 or 3 limps to hero, hero limps, sb completes, bb checks.

flop: (~150)A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP bets 100, hero raises to 333, all fold to MP who flat calls.

turn: (~816)2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP checks, hero pushes...

i think im getting results oriented here, but ive lost in basically this same spot like 5 times in the last 50 tourneys....

[J-P]

Fold pf but once you get in this spot, raise a little more on the flop, like 375-400. This board is super drawy and you want to take it down now or make him pay to draw. Turn push is good.

[vers]

fold pre. I like the flop and turn tho.

[Fuxl]

It's level 2 i fold AT this position. As played i push flop.

[RinconWoah]

Is folding ace ten suited when you have position on two weak limpers really the consensus (esp at the 15-30 lvl with huge implied odds)? Folding is ok, (calling isnt atleast marginal?) raising pre might be better to take out the weak calling hands people are playing at this level.

[Soupy]

i dont understand this, almost every thread people suggest playing nothing pre flop at all, i raise this hand and c bet the flop. and depending on reads i give it up on the turn or i take another shot at it. there is no reason to be afraid of postflop play

[reno expat]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand this, almost every thread people suggest playing nothing pre flop at all, i raise this hand and c bet the flop. and depending on reads i give it up on the turn or i take another shot at it. there is no reason to be afraid of postflop play

[/ QUOTE ]

With several limpers, to have any sort of fold equity preflop, you are going to have to raise it up to at least 150. You still run a chance of having multiple callers and AT just doesn't flop that well multi-ways. Assuming you hit something or its a dry flop, a c-bet is going to be at least another 250 chips. Raising preflop is just putting way too many chips at risk at this stage.

I don't mind limping behind several limpers with a hand like ATs and looking for a big flop in position in a spot like this. This is exactly that type of flop you wanted, and now you need to raise more on the flop to protect your hand on this board. Turn shove is solid.

[stu-unger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand this, almost every thread people suggest playing nothing pre flop at all, i raise this hand and c bet the flop. and depending on reads i give it up on the turn or i take another shot at it. there is no reason to be afraid of postflop play

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't mind limping behind several limpers with a hand like ATs and looking for a big flop in position in a spot like this. This is exactly that type of flop you wanted, and now you need to raise more on the flop to protect your hand on this board. Turn shove is solid.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think i agree w/ this, but ill clarify. i dont think folding is bad at all, its viable. i think calling can also be good if you (I) think i can outplay the table multi way and have the ability to fold one pair. i think raising limpers is generally bad, because it folds a lot of the hands we want to play against (ie. A2-A9 and TJ-KT).

i dont think its as clear cut of a fold as many are saying though, but i may be way off basis. the hand plays well against most donks limping ranges and ill likely have position. This may be a cash game mentality leaking through. please tell me if my logic is way off basis...

[sixfour]

I don't think a limp pre is bad at all here as long as we can get away from it if we hit marginally, here we've hit more than marginally and I think OP's played it perfectly, I'm felting this every time myself

[Fammy]

Just asking a question here as I have been here too...

The only hands we are behind to here are a made set and KJ suited or unsuited on the flop. With all of the callers, and no raisers pre, it is likely we are not facing a set of A's or Q's, T's marginal depending on the player (less likely as we have 1 also), so the only hands we are LIKELY to be behind to on the flop is KJ. The rest are potnetially very strong draws.

Does anyone have a major problem with a push on the flop after the t100 bet to increase hero's stack by > 10% and if hero is called, outs to FH?

With a board like this, I have been playing to take down the pot, rather than "extracting" as there are way too many ways to get into trouble and make decisions difficult. Is a diamond a problem or is it going to be the K or J that falls that will get us into trouble...will we be counterfeited... all of these are possibilities, and when you put them all together as possibilities, decisions are going to get very difficult very quickly.

Just my thought...please let me know if I am off base.

Fammy

P.S.

Depending on the table, I may either call or fold PF. Unless it is a really tight table, I am not a huge fan of a raise PF...I am treating this like small PP's...I either hit big or get out of the way.