Per Hour Rate

[tacticaltal]

I'm trying to get an idea of what a reasonable profit expectation per hour would be, using Lee Jones' strategy in his Winning Low Limit Hold'em, 2nd Ed.

I'm playing exclusively 3/6 Limit, B&M, with a buyin of $100. I usually will play 4-5 hrs per session, and if I lose the $100, I'm out - figure that the cards aren't with me if I'm losing that much with such selective and tight play.

And I do play fairly tight - having no problems mucking KTo type hands in early position or late if there's a raise.

EP I usually play KQs, AJs+, pairs down to 99, while in later positions, I become more liberal.

Absolutely trying to follow Jones' advice to the extent that I am able to remember it while playing.

My problem is that I don't usually win alot. After 4-5 hrs, I may be up 40-50 and occasionally, as much as 100, when I decide enough is enough, having doubled my buyin.

[pzhon]

You may have an unrealistic expectation for a good win rate. 1-2 BB/hour may be achievable in a soft live low stakes game, which would be $6-$12/hour. It depends on the number of hands you get per hour, how bad your opponents are (the worse they are, the more you can win), and the rake structure.

The book Winning Low Limit Hold'em doesn't really give you the tools to win. It primarily tells you how not to lose: Don't play too loosely, and don't overvalue hands that can be beaten by one card in multiway pots. Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth is more accurate and better for learning to crush these games.

It sounds like you are playing too tightly in early position, but the marginal hands are just that, marginal. You probably need to work on your postflop play.

[dreed]

I agree 1-2 bb per hr is a fair number. But you should not have much of a problemb doing this playing solid poker. I think playing to tight isa problemb most of the time. Your better of playing tight early them adjust you game play to the table. If there is a lot of preflop rasing then stay tight and look for good spots to get agressive in late pos. But if your in a weak tight game where not many raises are going in preflop then see some flop and play postflop poker.

[JacksonTens]

[ QUOTE ]
I think playing to tight isa problemb most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

He doesn't sound too tight at all. KJo and KTo are poo in EP in FR. Especially in big multiway pots and associated rake structure.

JT

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

He doesn't sound too tight at all. KJo and KTo are poo in EP in FR. Especially in big multiway pots and associated rake structure.


[/ QUOTE ]
KTo may be too weak, but KJo is not. KJo is a marginal winner in early position in very loose limit games, and loses in tight games. KJo benefits when people are willing to play hands it dominates, instead of getting action only from stronger hands. See Small Stakes Hold'em.

The OP said he played AJs+, KQs, and 99+. That suggests he is throwing out ATs, AJo, KQo, and 88, which definitely should be played. Again, though, throwing out a few hands that are worth 0.1 BB isn't the main problem.

[tacticaltal]

[ QUOTE ]
The OP said he played AJs+, KQs, and 99+. That suggests he is throwing out ATs, AJo, KQo, and 88, which definitely should be played. Again, though, throwing out a few hands that are worth 0.1 BB isn't the main problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can play almost all suiteds in EP which contain an A or K down to about 9: AK-A9s KQ-K9s+, plus AKo, AQo. I get hesitant with anything less, such as Qxs unless they're connected. I don't like one gaps in EP. I'm not that fond of T9s early. TJ, I can play for one bet early, but if I fail to flop the nut straight or two-pair, I'm done with it.

I appreciate you alls comments here, cause sometimes I think I am too tight. I don't consider myself weak, however, cause I will raise with my holdings, except of course with hands I'm needing flushes, when I want all the players I can get.

Should I be playing hands like 56s+ for one bet EP?

All the above would be regarding the loose-apassive games with which I'm most experienced.

[Poker Clif]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to get an idea of what a reasonable profit expectation per hour would be, using Lee Jones' strategy in his Winning Low Limit Hold'em, 2nd Ed.

I'm playing exclusively 3/6 Limit, B&M, with a buyin of $100. I usually will play 4-5 hrs per session, and if I lose the $100, I'm out - figure that the cards aren't with me if I'm losing that much with such selective and tight play.

And I do play fairly tight - having no problems mucking KTo type hands in early position or late if there's a raise.

EP I usually play KQs, AJs+, pairs down to 99, while in later positions, I become more liberal.

Absolutely trying to follow Jones' advice to the extent that I am able to remember it while playing.

My problem is that I don't usually win alot. After 4-5 hrs, I may be up 40-50 and occasionally, as much as 100, when I decide enough is enough, having doubled my buyin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never played in a casino. Only online, and local charity tournaments ($50 buy-in)

However, I'm concerned about your bankroll management, especially quitting when you've doubled your buy-in.

Why in the world would you set such an artificial stopping point when you're winning? If the table is good, keep playing, and if it's bad, get out.

[Jobo]

wait, wait...
I know I asked this question too a while back, the answers I got were similar, I think, BUT... well, is it the same for micro-limits online? Because I'm amazed at the differences I see in my results.

For example, I mostly play .02/.04 and .05/.10 limit hold'em on Stars. I'm use to having bad sessions sometimes because I don't get to play regularly, but when I'm on par what usually happens is I'll buy in for .80/2.00 respectively and play for about 1 hour or so. I'll hit big pots, lose some medium pots, bluff-win a few small pots, and at the end I can expect to be up at least .50, often I've managaed to double my buy-in (1.60-4.00), within 100 hands. Strangely, my winnings for the .02/.04 tables are close to the same as the .05/.10.

Anyways, that puts me about 20xbb... then why do I feel like such a terrible player?? Of course, it could be because when I move up to the .10/.25 and .25/.50 games I CAN'T SEE TO HAVE A WINNING SESSION...

What the heck is so different between those levels that can kill me so often? I don't wanna be a big winner (only) in the kiddie pool all my life!

Sorry to ramble a bit! But it is, generally, along topic.

thx!

[tacticaltal]

[ QUOTE ]
... However, I'm concerned about your bankroll management, especially quitting when you've doubled your buy-in.

Why in the world would you set such an artificial stopping point when you're winning? If the table is good, keep playing, and if it's bad, get out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, of course you're right, but I'm still at the stage where I'm trying to build a bankroll; I'm not there yet. Attempting to do so online, I suppose, is the best and possibly quickest way, but being a US citizen, I haven't figured out how to get in.

Anyway, that's the reason I quit when I'm ahead, so that I can maintain the roll, which so far is at about $350 profit.

I don't know, I apologize for the off-topics arising from this, but as you can see, I've many questions about many variables.

[Jobo]

U.S. Players can play on a couple sites. I play on PokerStars, and have to use epassporte to load money from my bank through epassporte onto Stars. I can't remember what others sites are still ok for the U.S. off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there're more.