Big Laydown? Standart Laydown? Bad Laydown?

[Renton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a fold and not even close;

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it when people say this about hands like this.

Saying its "not even close" by association means that bottom set would be a close decision, which obviously would be a lie.

This is the bottom of our calling range / top of our folding range, so by definition its as close as it gets.

If it is a fold, which i assume it is considering all of the opinions of good players in this thread point to folding, its a close one.

[dtan05]

why on earth would KK play OOP in a 3bet pot with stacks this deep? I'm referring to UTG here.

I don't think MP flats KK here again, after what looks like a squeeze and a call by a pp of sorts. Isn't this basic handreading? Also, MP only has 100bbs, wtf is he trying to get tricky for?

Unless you're trying to get it all in vs MP? But I doubt he'll call with <set after you push over the top of MP's all in.

[dtan05]

[ QUOTE ]
looks like JJ - KK from UTG and 55/77/JJ/spades from MP. With a generous distribution of spade draws we have at most 20% equity:
Hand 0: 20.581% 20.04% 00.54% 34922 946.50 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 17.728% 17.18% 00.54% 29949 946.50 { JJ+ }
Hand 2: 61.691% 61.69% 00.00% 107515 0.00 { JJ, 77, 55, KsQs, Ts9s, 9s8s, 6s5s }

We aren't getting 20% pot even if the other player calls as well. We get close if we get the rest of the other player's stack, but I think if we shove here we're only getting called by JJ.

Weird to fold AA in a reraised pot, but it is correct here.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[RiverHebrew2]

I make a PSRR pf. As played, I sorta like ur laydown, but I never personally make it.

[Janis N.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a fold and not even close;

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it when people say this about hands like this.

Saying its "not even close" by association means that bottom set would be a close decision, which obviously would be a lie.

This is the bottom of our calling range / top of our folding range, so by definition its as close as it gets.

If it is a fold, which i assume it is considering all of the opinions of good players in this thread point to folding, its a close one.

[/ QUOTE ]You make a good point, I hadn't thought about it this way.

Here are the PokerStoves as I see their ranges, which would even indicate 55 is a fold.

So one of my senses (the explicit putting them on the range sense or the intuitive "what we do now?" sense) is totally off, as intuitively I want to snapfold AA while snapshove 55.

Board: 5h Js 7s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 17.823% 17.82% 00.00% 33476 0.00 { AhAs }
Hand 1: 41.996% 42.00% 00.00% 78879 0.00 { QQ-JJ, 77, 55 }
Hand 2: 40.181% 40.18% 00.00% 75469 0.00 { QQ-JJ, 77, 55, AhJh, KsQs, Ts9s, 6s5s }

Board: 5h Js 7s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.633% 18.63% 00.00% 66123 0.00 { 55 }
Hand 1: 42.576% 42.56% 00.02% 151038 54.00 { QQ-JJ, 77, 55 }
Hand 2: 38.792% 38.78% 00.02% 137610 54.00 { QQ-JJ, 77, 55, AhJh, KsQs, Ts9s, 6s5s }

What does everyone think of these ranges, I have them totally wrong?

[xcrack999]

I think you have to include KK in their ranges. That should make things closer, but still very very marginal.

[Barrin6]

When I first read this thread, I was thinking that everyone who said fold was leveling. But as I read further down, I see people actually taking there responses seriously. So now I don't know if the people who said to fold is leveling or not.

[FionnMac]

i call here and i'm a nit

[Barrin6]

Just in case this isn't a level.

Folding is so bad here. You get in a re raised pot with a dream flop and AA, and now you want to fold? WTF

[FionnMac]

yeh i think this might be one of those threads where the first couple of ppl say fold and everyone else kinda blindly agrees (not criticizing anyone, iv done this myself too)