Incident in Jena,La.

[CaptainFreedom]

Southern Wingers defending racism and racial double standards ITT. So standard. The events are so "cloudy and murky" (by my own making) I just can't make up my mind on the facts of this case. If only those black student's hadn't sat under that tree!

[RedBean]

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I kind of grunched the previous 30 (long ass) posts, but I thought one of the biggest points the protesters had was the fact that the three who put the nooses up didn't get charged with anything. At least, in all the discussions I've seen that is hearkened back to time and time again. This link explains a good deal, including the fact that the FBI was called into Jena to investigate the "hate crime" aspect of the nooses. It was decided that all the aspects of a hate crime were there, but the offenders were all minors, and there was no backdrop criminal organization like the KKK to justify making it a federal matter. As such they left it to the school to decide.

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I haven't seen it mentioned that the DA was called in specifically to address the student population after tensions rose following the noose incident, in an attempt to calm the sporadic outbreaks of minor incidents at school.....long before the fair barn, shotgun, or beating incident.

During his address, he told black students he could "end their life with a stroke of the pen."

He proceeded to charge the black teens with robbery for disarming a white assailant in a confrontation........failed to file charges against white attackers for beating a black kid.....and then sought attempted murder charges on the 6 kids who beat up a white kid.

For anyone not to think this DA's actions isn't overzealous and racially motivated, please to be explaining why.

[RedBean]

Oh, and the only adult eyewitness to the beating, Coach Lewis, was prepared to testify that he did not see any of the Jena 6 strike the victim, but instead an entirely seperate individual that he named to police and officials.

It didn't make it into testimony, because the Coach was never called by the DA.

Instead, the prosecutor only called 10 white students to testify, out of the entire roomful of people who were present, black and white, including the adult teacher.

Of those 10 white students called to testify, two of them were responsible for hanging the noose, and one of them was on record the day of the incident as not knowing who the attackers were, and several of them were pitcured by news reporters eating dinner during the trial with the victim and his family at a restuarant.

The DA was true to his word....he said he could end their lives with the stroke of a pen, and he's doing all he can to follow through....justice be damned.

[RedBean]

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It seems reasonable that an argument took place and the white student felt threatened given the whole "several friends" aspect of it and he went to retrieve his firearm. IMO you're way off on this one RedBean, along with that Cut guy

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According to KBXX news, based on trial testimony:

"Three black teens were in the store, including two of the Jena Six, and when they left, they were confronted by a white man with a loaded shotgun. The teens wrestled the gun from him and fled."

One side says they felt threatened and pulled a gun.

The other side says they were confronted by a guy with a gun already drawn.

Either way, it was a confrontation that could have went really bad, but ended peacefully when the black youths disarmed the white guy and fled.

That they were charged with robbery for not immediately returning the firearm to an adversary who had a reasonable intention of using it on them is ridiculous, regardless of what side of the story you subscribe too.

[CaptainFreedom]

There was a one hour special on this on CNN that just finished. It's good that this is finally getting some attention. Of course I had heard of this incident months ago on that leftist smear site dailykos but any mention is good.

99% of the white community in Jena isn't saying anything about the case but CNN was able to find 2 people to say that there is no racial problems in Jena. The first one was a coffee shop owner and the other person was....wait for it...the DA!

There was one fat white preacher and another white woman (probably into miscegenation) who went on record to say there is racial tensions in the town so props to him.

One old timer explained it like this " you have to understand that this town is mostly old timers, where you were lucky if you got to grade 6"

Shockingly the whole black community seems to think there is a racial divide in the township.

[4 High]

This DA needs to be Nifong'd.

[MuresanForMVP]

RB, I think we've gone off on a tangent in this thread. Do you think these 6 should be charged for aggravated assault? It seems like you're skewing the issues here, which has been done time and time again. Your performance in this thread is very similar to yours in the Bonds thread only these are two different things. You're attacking the credibility of witnesses, the all white jury (which is pretty flimsy in and of itself), yet you're not taking the issue head on: did they or did they not commit aggravated assault? I think it's foolish to think that even if they go to trial for the attempted murder charges they're going to get convicted, and Id be shocked if they were. Bringing up all the "zomg racism!" frankly doesn't mean [censored] when you get in that court room to be tried for the crimes you've (allegedly) committed.

I see noone arguing for the innocence of these 6 men, only that the students who hung the nooses should be charged, so should the whites who beat up the kid at the party (weren't their 5 black guys there together anyways?), etc etc. And based upon this they should be "freed". Frankly I find that retarded.

[DblBarrelJ]

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RB, I think we've gone off on a tangent in this thread. Do you think these 6 should be charged for aggravated assault? It seems like you're skewing the issues here, which has been done time and time again. Your performance in this thread is very similar to yours in the Bonds thread only these are two different things. You're attacking the credibility of witnesses, the all white jury (which is pretty flimsy in and of itself), yet you're not taking the issue head on: did they or did they not commit aggravated assault? I think it's foolish to think that even if they go to trial for the attempted murder charges they're going to get convicted, and Id be shocked if they were. Bringing up all the "zomg racism!" frankly doesn't mean [censored] when you get in that court room to be tried for the crimes you've (allegedly) committed.

I see noone arguing for the innocence of these 6 men, only that the students who hung the nooses should be charged, so should the whites who beat up the kid at the party (weren't their 5 black guys there together anyways?), etc etc. And based upon this they should be "freed". Frankly I find that retarded.

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IMO, yes, Attempted murder is the correct charge. Regardless of intent, in a six on one beatdown, it is entirely possible to accidentally kill someone, especially considering that most news outlets seem to agree that the beatdown went on after the victim was unconcious.

Don't get me wrong, there are many things that should be protested here. I support protests for all of these reasons in Jena:

The resignation of every member of the school board
The reinstatement of the Principal who was dismissed for suggesting expulsion
as well as:
The Expulsion of those responsible for the noose


However, in a civilized society, you can't just go beating someone up for what they said, or did. Emotions not withstanding, no one was physically hurt by the nooses hanging from the tree. Someone was physically hurt by a six on one gang attack.

BTW, I'm currently researching the criminal histories of the attackers. So far I've found several assaults, as well as a few other crimes that are listed as "Juvenile Offense". I will post those findings, with sources, when I've gotten it all together, which will probably in the morning.

Needless to say, with just what I've found so far, these six had a history of violence and crime, and this was not a group of innocent teens who, in the face of deep oppression, lost control. What I'm starting to see is a group of hoodlums, with a history of conflict with the police, seeing an opportunity to use racism as an attempt to get their rocks off beating the [censored] out of some white kid.

[RedBean]

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Do you think these 6 should be charged for aggravated assault?


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Aggravated assault by Louisiana law requires the assualt with the use of a deadly weapon. The DA argued that Bell's sneakers were "deadly weapons".

I'd disagree and charge them with simple assault and battery, and as juveniles for the ones under 18. That's what they'd get if they were white, it's the correct call here.

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like you're skewing the issues here, which has been done time and time again. Your performance in this thread is very similar to yours in the Bonds thread only these are two different things. You're attacking the credibility of witnesses, the all white jury (which is pretty flimsy in and of itself),


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I'm not attacking the all-white jury, just stating the fact. It is what it is, no more no less.

As for the credibility of the witnesses, it's simple fact that the only adult witness to the assault says that Mychal Bell did not hit Joseph Baker, and explicitly names another person as the attacker, one that isn't even charged.


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yet you're not taking the issue head on: did they or did they not commit aggravated assault?


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It's questionable if the six men are even guilty of assault the victim in the first place, as eyewitness testimony is unclear whether or not they got the right guys.....and even assuming they are the six attackers, it is difficult to call it aggravated assault in the abscence of a deadly weapon.


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I think it's foolish to think that even if they go to trial for the attempted murder charges they're going to get convicted, and Id be shocked if they were.


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You think it's foolish to think they'd get convicted of charges they didn't commit?

Mychal Bell was originally convicted for felony second-degree aggravated assault and conspiracy to commit the same.

That charge requires premeditated conspiracy between at least two people to assualt another person with a deadly weapon with no regard to whether or not they inflict fatal damage.

Would it be foolish to also think that a 16-year old youth could be convicted of both those charges as an adult in the Jena courts, and face a possibility of a 22 year prison sentence.....despite the abscence of premeditation, a deadly weapon, or the intent to inflict fatal harm?

Because that is what happened.

Thankfully, the appellate court agreed it was foolish, but the trial court and jury saw no problem convicting in the first place.

I have no doubt if the DA presented attempted murder with no option for a lesser charge to that particular jury, the kid would have easily been convicted. Stuff like that happens every day.


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Bringing up all the "zomg racism!" frankly doesn't mean [censored] when you get in that court room to be tried for the crimes you've (allegedly) committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

With all due respect, you either live in a bubble, or are in some serious denial. Race plays a gigantic role in courtrooms all across the country.

Believe me, brother, I wish it didn't, and I wish it were as simple as you say....but it just ain't.

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I see noone arguing for the innocence of these 6 men,

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you looked?

I can give you mountains of material that address actual case testimony point-by-point to show both the reasonable doubt as to whether or not Bell could be guilty, along with whether or not he got competent defense at trial.

Remember, his defense attorney did not present any case, he rested immediately after the prosecution presented it's two day case, and several news reporters covering the trial were completely shocked at his incompetence on issues even they noticed should be objected too or countered with ease.

In fact, the best thing to come out of this whole fiasco gaining national attention is that these kids are going to get competent counsel, and I can promise you when it all wraps up, it's going to have a much different outcome that originally thought.

I'm guessing a simple assault plea in juvy court, with records expunged at age 18, no time served, and 2 years probation.

[RedBean]

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IMO, yes, Attempted murder is the correct charge. Regardless of intent, in a six on one beatdown, it is entirely possible to accidentally kill someone.


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Um....murder and attempted murder require intent to kill.


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in a civilized society, you can't just go beating someone up for what they said, or did.


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In a civilized society, you can't just go charging every black kid who gets into a fight with attempted murder either.

If they commited simple assault, they should be charged with simple assault.

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Emotions not withstanding, no one was physically hurt by the nooses hanging from the tree. Someone was physically hurt by a six on one gang attack.


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Totally agree, but likewise, no one attempted murder, and no one was assaulted with a deadly weapon.


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Needless to say, with just what I've found so far, these six had a history of violence and crime, and this was not a group of innocent teens who, in the face of deep oppression, lost control. What I'm starting to see is a group of hoodlums, with a history of conflict with the police, seeing an opportunity to use racism as an attempt to get their rocks off beating the [censored] out of some white kid.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what about Coach Lewis, the only adult who witnessed the attack, saying that he did not see any of the six charged strike the victim, and instead named a seperate boy as the aggressor?

Does their violent history make them guilty, even if they aren't?