Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[Josem]

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The quote from the affiliates response said

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While we are continuing with our investigation, we have yet to find any evidence of wrong doing. Our game client only receives data regarding the individuals hand and no other players hole cards, except in the event of a showdown.


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How does this work? They can't check anybody's cards unless there's a showdown? Obv this was just a nobody who might not know how everything works, but they can't cross check the hands and see what everyone was given preflop?

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They're saying that the poker client (the program that each user runs on their own PC) only receives the data of other player's hands at showndown.

On the other hand, the server (the program that runs of AP's computers) obviously must know everyone's hands because it generates them, writes AP's HH logs, and so on.

[apefish]

Because people are irrational.
Or because a house edge and fairness are two separate issues to them.
Or some combo of the two.

[Klompy]

Meh, I'm an idiot for missing that. I was reading it as them trying to say they can't compare what cards were being played against what cards, but it was a misread on my part.

[Josem]

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lol why are they even playing slot machines if they want a fair game

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I think you are misapplying the word "fair" to mean "-EV". They are very different things.


They want a fair game in the sense that they want it to be operated according to the rules.

Intelligent and rational slot machine gamblers are obviously aware that their bets are -EV, but value the non-financial aspects:
a) the social
b) the entertainment
c) the excitement
d) etc.

(Of course, these will vary in degree to each player)


Obviously, a roulette game carries an advantage for the house. However, in the most normal and commonly-used sense, it is not "rigged," and there is no cheating involved. Being -EV does not mean that the game is unfair, crooked or cheating.


To apply it more directly to poker, I am certainly -EV in a game of poker against adanthar. That does not mean such a game is rigged - it means that such a game would be -EV for me.

edit: added in italics to clarify that i was just referring to slot machine gamblers

[WordWhiz]

I played with one of the suspect accounts, GRAYCAT, a few months ago. He was going all-in almost every hand and dropped a bunch of buy-ins. Can anyone clue me in as to how this might fit into this whole thing? Chip dumping? Original GRAYCAT was a fish whose account was taken over by the super-users so his crazy play would look less suspicious?

Screen shot of GRAYCAT's session:

[Moose]

"fair" = "as advertised"
"honest" = "equal chances for both".

Almost every card game I've played in - casino or poker table - has been honest. None have been fair. Sometimes I've had the mathematical edge, sometimes the house has; in almost all cases, every random event resolved as the theoretical model would suggest. Every die was a "1" 1/6 of the time, a "2" 1/6th of the time, etc.

In other words, fair <> honest. Most gambling you see in casinos and poker rooms in honest. None of it is fair. DUCY?

[ChrisV]

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I played with one of the suspect accounts, GRAYCAT, a few months ago. He was going all-in almost every hand and dropped a bunch of buy-ins. Can anyone clue me in as to how this might fit into this whole thing?

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The idea is that graycat was a losing player prior to some event (the AP patch, possibly, or the distribution of some trojan) that enabled him to see hole cards. What kind of player is donking it up at 3/6NL and then virtually overnight crushes excellent players at 150/300 heads up limit?

[Josem]

People who don't understand the concepts involved should not get pretentious about it.

There's nothing worse than someone who is obviously ignorant trying to pass themselves off as an expert.

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"fair" = "as advertised"
"honest" = "equal chances for both".

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I don't understand why "honest" means "equal chances for both."

That's not what the word means anywhere else in the world.

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Almost every card game I've played in - casino or poker table - has been honest. None have been fair.

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Even if we accept your absurd definitions, your statement that you have never played in a game that was "as advertised" is crazy.

Either:
a) you no longer use your own definitions
or
b) you have some of the most moronic game selection ever

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Sometimes I've had the mathematical edge, sometimes the house has; in almost all cases, every random event resolved as the theoretical model would suggest.

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I'm pretty sure that this phrase means literally nothing.

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Every die was a "1" 1/6 of the time, a "2" 1/6th of the time, etc.

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right...

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In other words, fair <> honest. Most gambling you see in casinos and poker rooms in honest. None of it is fair. DUCY?

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None of it is "as advertised"? Why on earth not?

[apefish]

Josem-

I agree with nearly every point you've made.

Less potential hijacks more crappy cheaters stuff please.

[FatalError]

The type of person that would attempt something like this would have to be an extremely bold but somewhat ignorant person with a narcism that would feed heavily on the feeling he was dominating others and causing them pain. From everything i've seen of seif on tv (USPC, WSOP, ect.) this guy just thrives on defeating people and taking their money, what better way to do that then to buy a share in a website, dump tons of money to attract high stakes games, and then plunder those games by using other accounts nobody knows about to periodically login and thrash people, feeding his addiction to winning.