KK on Paired Board [Turn-/Riverplay]

[MrFister]

Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

UTG+1 ($17.30)
UTG+2 ($52.10)
MP1 ($14.50)
MP2 ($23.00)
MP3 ($16.25)
CO ($9.35)
Button ($27.60)
SB ($23.55)
BB ($52.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
1 folds, Hero raises to $2.00, 1 folds, MP2 calls $2.00, 5 folds

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $4.75 )
Hero bets $3.00, MP2 calls $3.00,

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $10.75 )
Hero checks, MP2 checks,

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( $10.75 )
Hero bets $5.00, MP2 raises All-In $18</font>, ...



im kinda sceptical on the flop, what he is calling me with, so i assumed this was WA/WB here. thus i plan to c/c on the turn to both keep the pot small and allow him to bluff
i dont have a good read on him (29 hands) just a tendency toward a loose/passive player - VPIP ~30%, AF 0,5
after he checks the turn, im trying a rather small value/blockbet with quite unpleasant consequences
although im really getting fair pot odds on a call 1,875:1 im not exactly thriled with the situation

QUESTIONS:
1. Turnplay okay? WA/WB?
2. whats the correct line on the river? c/c, b/f, b/c...?

[MrFister]

any ideas?

[ULcajun]

you showed quite a bit of weakness on the turn. I have to call here. Im looking for top pair of the lower cards, JJ, TT, AK

[bsball8806]

bet the turn. as played, the river is fine, now fold. most likely a Q or 99.

We don't beat anything he shoves with

[thing85]

Bet the turn ($5-7), reevaluate on the river. You're giving his KTs, J9s, etc. a free card (as a lose passive player, it's probably within his range) or you're giving him reason to believe his smaller PP is the best hand, thereby allowing him take a shot at you on the river. Or, he draws dead and thinks he can bluff you off your hand. By checking the turn, you lose any edge you have and you're left in the dark about what he might have.

As played, I'd have to call the river. At least if you bet the turn and he comes back at you strong, you can lay it down more easily.

[thing85]

[ QUOTE ]
bet the turn. as played, the river is fine, now fold. most likely a Q or 99.

We don't beat anything he shoves with

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree - villain could have 55-77, TT, JJ, A9s, A8s, all of which we beat. His passiveness suggest that it probably has to be at the stronger end of that range. I think it's close, but I might have to take back my original answer and find a fold here.

[CPFB]

I'm betting just a little more on the flop (maybe 4).

Then I'm betting around 12 on the turn and calling a shove. If he has a Q, nh.

If his stack was bigger, I think I'd be more likely to check the turn for pot control.

[MrFister]

as played, i found a fold on the river... my mistake was probably not betting the turn, so his AI bet on the river was kinda hard to call. if a had bet the turn, the call on the river woulda been much easier...
still, i might have saved some money with this line... main criteria to check the turn was his tendency toward passiveness. a loose/passive player would have definetely played Qx like this and if he didnt, he made a great play though i cannot believe that he knew what he was doing. if he really had a hand like TT, JJ, or maybe A8 he shoulda just called the river and hope hes best

[ryang]

more than likely a slow played Q.

[MrFister]

i found a severe mistake with the pot odds on his shove on the river: im getting 2.6:1 pot odds!! can i possibly still lay this down?

i cannot correct the intial post anymore!