Hypothetical river play - Page 3

mvoss · #21 09-17-2007, 06:11 AM

GV I can't see your post, but since you're replying to one of my posts I'm sure it's retarded as always. I already have you on my ignore list, why don't you put me on yours and stop wasting your time because no matter what you write you're not getting any discussion/argument going with me.

Gurravasa · #22 09-17-2007, 06:21 AM

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GV I can't see your post, but since you're replying to one of my posts I'm sure it's retarded as always. I already have you on my ignore list, why don't you put me on yours and stop wasting your time because no matter what you write you're not getting any discussion/argument going with me.

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lol...

Carmine · #23 09-17-2007, 07:16 AM

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Hey Miles. My critism was more about the over/incorrect usage of the program in general and not necessarilay aimed at this post. I just chose this thread because the first response was to "stove it" and I guess it was my last straw so to speak. There was no discussion about an estimated range, possibilites of a bluff raise from this particular player, showdown numbers, flop texture, etc etc.

Even when we do stove this hand. How reliable is the information. Only as reliable as the information imput into the program by the user and this can vary quite a bit from user to user I would think. I just think responses should concentrate more on how to estimate a more accurate range given the information available at the time and factor in the possiblites of bluff raises or whatever else needs to be considered

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There is no such discussion because how are we able to discuss this with OP, he should know hand ranges, the possibility of a bluff raise and villains SD numbers much better than the rest of us. How should we be able to discuss this with someone who was at the table???

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Hey Mvoss. I understand exactly what you're saying. I probably only post about 1 hand for every 19 I respond to on this site for this reason. I will always have more information about that particular situation(that I'm involved in) than anyone, thus making me one of the best qualified to answer my own question(s). It's only when I don't know how to interpret or calculate that information that I ask for help along with the times I don't have enough information and need help guesstimating

Oink · #24 09-17-2007, 07:34 AM

As arrogant as mvoss' reply might seem he is right.

If you want to raise/fold this river just do a stove including the hands he will either raise or call and see if you have +50% eq.

Poker stove is a really good tool for river play analysis.

I wouldnt make this raise, but there seems to be some good posters who like it so I have to admit I need to to stove it myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Carmine · #25 09-17-2007, 07:56 AM

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As arrogant as mvoss' reply might seem he is right.

If you want to raise/fold this river just do a stove including the hands he will either raise or call and see if you have +50% eq.

Poker stove is a really good tool for river play analysis.

I wouldnt make this raise, but there seems to be some good posters who like it so I have to admit I need to to stove it myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Oink, this seems like an easy raise using my mental stove (as Miles would call it). Would you mind stoving it and posting results. I'm just as curious to see what range you input as the actual results.

Oink · #26 09-17-2007, 08:00 AM

When I stove it I get around 55-60% eq. It depends on how much you discount the various hands. I include A high and discount them by 5/6. I inlude any pair hand and better and dicount hen differently.

EDIT: When you doscount by clickling on the possible combos in stove you need to be aware of the cards that are on the board. I missed that so my discounting is prolly of. Dunno how much it changes, but you need to take my stove FWIW.

It really takes forever to mess around with but I figured my discounting was ok. Seems like a good raise

Carmine · #27 09-17-2007, 08:26 AM

Hmm. I'm thinking part of my problem with stove is I may not know how to use it correctly. I'm more of a pad and pencil sort of guy. Mostly because I like to do the work which helps me to remember it for future use. It's just how my head works.

Discounting a hand when doing the math yourself is easy, but how is it done in stove. I was actually looking for some sort of help menu or help thread for stove just a few days ago as there was another thread where there was discussion about data being input incorrectly and i couldn't understand what the poster did wrong.

Does anyone know of such a link?

Oink · #28 09-17-2007, 08:42 AM

You can click the suits to the right when choosing hands

globalboy · #29 09-17-2007, 09:51 AM

miles, ty for the response but I knew what you thought, was talking to Nina.

Carmine, if you want to discount a hand by 50% in stove you just select half the suit combos.

Gurravasa · #30 09-17-2007, 10:35 AM

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If you want to raise/fold this river just do a stove including the hands he will either raise or call and see if you have +50% eq.

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I think judging wich hands villain raise or call is what we should analyze, not what we do when we have decided that. I know you and Mvoss are friends and countriemen but honestly his post contained no analyze at all and was a pretty meaningless post IMHO.