Live 20/40. Play along part un...

[SNOWBALL]

re: checking nonpaired rivers

he's betting most of his range when checked to, so I'm not worried about losing value

[Garland]

I call the turn with the intent on check-calling any non-pair river, but check-raising if the board pairs. Seems standard I hope: Too often I’m 3-betting the turn against an unknown and the other guy has AJ and 4-bets, then I feel compelled to call down hoping he overplayed a set/2 pair. In addition by simply calling the turn, I may get excessive action on a paired board river by a weaker hand because of how under-represented my hand is to this point.

Leading the river if I don’t pair seems to be asking for it too, unless you think you can fold it to a raise, and I don’t like that idea. If it was good enough to lead the river, it’s good enough to 3-bet the turn. If the board pairs, I’m not really in danger of HJ checking behind any two pair+ hand he liked on the turn, so checking works.

River: (11 big bets, 2 players) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Check, HJ bets, I raise, HJ 3-bets, I 4-bet, HJ 5-bets! ... how far to dance?

Results to follow.

Garland

[Gap23Razor]

i think 3 bet...

if we are behind we have 10 outs to a house

but we may be ahead as the villain could be semi-bluffing a straight or flush

if villain 4 bets i call, and raise the river if the board pairs, if not check/call

[HammerinHank]

[ QUOTE ]
30ish or early 40ish of some Asian ethnicity.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for narrowing that down: [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]



Just call. You are probably beat. He either just called behind preflop with KK or "took on off" with 55 as loose players love to do. Passive Bay 101 regulars don't go 5 bets without the nuts.

55 would be sick. What's that about 2000-1 against?

[Dagger78]

I can't go more than calling the 5 bet, And at that point I'm not sure how much I like my hand. Unless he's a total spaz his 5 bet makes me seriously worried.

[Garland]

I was kidding about the 5-bet...was just imagining how far I should take it just in case. Probably just call vs an unknown. He called the 4 and my hand was good. He didn't show. I suspect he was more likely to have an underboat than AJ, but who really knows?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Garland

[Hyperrrprank]

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call, then lead a paired river and go for a 3 bet. Otherwise checkcall.

Even if we 100% discount j9 from his range, there are still only slightly more plausible 2 pair and set hands you beat. You're often gonna be shown AJ. You don't wanna 3 bet and give him to chance to 4 bet you when you're only a slight favorite.

edit: this is a basic combinatorics question. We can remove a fair amount of the 2 pair hands from his PF range, but we can't do the same with AJ. Tons of players coldcall with AJ offsuit here. Add in J9s (and maybe sometimes offsuit) and we're not much of a favorite, and probably a minor dog. You really don't wanna get 4 bet here. Just call down unless the river pairs. For realz

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I'm following your thinking, except I'm not sure why we're discounting a lot of his two pair hands. I see people call KJ, KQ, J10 all the time against the PFR. The same characters call with AJo and AJs for sure, but can we really discount the 2-pair hands against unknowns here? I'd love to hear more thoughts on this, since it makes a big difference in hands like these.

With my feeling that KJ is almost as likely as AJ here I don't mind 3-betting the turn and calling down if it's raised again. I would consider the call and then c/c line if I'm against a nitty player for sure.