U.S. Losing War on Domestic Terror

[Copernicus]

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The depth of depraved idiocy in this tread must be a new 2+2 record.

1. Drug offenders only exist due to the war on drugs and the black market it creates. Drug related gangs ... same deal. <font color="red">drug laws exist because drugs are a danger to the individual and to society. drug offenders exist because they break those laws. </font>

2. Illegals are a necessary and useful part of our society. <font color="red">they are not necessary, they may be useful, however their total utility is negative </font> The only conceivable problem that they pose is a (hypothetical)drain on the welfare system. <font color="red">and the prison system, and the school system, and the legal system, and the insurance system, and the health system </font>


Since both the war on drugs and the welfare state are a pathetic failure. We should reasonably be able to do away with both, and the negatives they bring, <font color="red">eliminating the war on drugs would bring far worse negatives, welfare can exist if it is designed so it doesnt perpetuate what its trying to solve </font> while keeping our labor pool intact.

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[AWoodside]

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All the jails are filled up(rightfully so) with pot heads and prostitutes. No room for terrorists here.

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ORLY? How many "pot heads and prostitutes" are there overcrowding our prisons and jails?

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Here is a justice department report from 2005 stating that in 2004 21% of state prisoners and 55% of federal prisoners were in there for drug crimes: report

Of course there are nuances that can be discussed, linking this report is just to get a general feel for it.

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drug crimes != potheads

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I guess not, I was replying to what I thought was the spirit of the statement, which I'm pretty sure was a broader statement about drugs and probably victim-less crimes in general.

While we're having fun though:

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Justice Department surveys show that 52.7% of state prison inmates, 73.7% of jail inmates, and 87.6% of federal inmates were imprisoned for offenses which involved neither harm, nor the threat of harm, to a victim.

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link

[Copernicus]

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All the jails are filled up(rightfully so) with pot heads and prostitutes. No room for terrorists here.

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ORLY? How many "pot heads and prostitutes" are there overcrowding our prisons and jails?

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Here is a justice department report from 2005 stating that in 2004 21% of state prisoners and 55% of federal prisoners were in there for drug crimes: report

Of course there are nuances that can be discussed, linking this report is just to get a general feel for it.

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drug crimes != potheads

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I guess not, I was replying to what I thought was the spirit of the statement, which I'm pretty sure was a broader statement about drugs and probably victim-less crimes in general.

While we're having fun though:

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Justice Department surveys show that 52.7% of state prison inmates, 73.7% of jail inmates, and 87.6% of federal inmates were imprisoned for offenses which involved neither harm, nor the threat of harm, to a victim.

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link

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the summary is very misleading, implying that violence is the only kind of "harm" that can come to a victim. I agree that compensation + punitive damages is a more appropriate form of justice for many non-violent crimes. However, full compensation is rarely available, much less punitive damages, or it is so freely available that compensation + damages is not material punishment. In the absence of those as a form of punishment some form of restrictions on freedom are all that is left. Is confinement to home justice? In some cases, probably. But in those cases I doubt that the criminal is in jail/prison for very long anyway.

[Edukashun]

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The depth of depraved idiocy in this tread must be a new 2+2 record.

1. Drug offenders only exist due to the war on drugs and the black market it creates. Drug related gangs ... same deal.
<font color="red">drug laws exist because drugs are a danger to the individual and to society. drug offenders exist because they break those laws. </font>
<font color="green"> Tobacco and Alcohol are not drugs then? </font>
2. Illegals are a necessary and useful part of our society. <font color="red">they are not necessary, they may be useful, however their total utility is negative </font> The only conceivable problem that they pose is a (hypothetical)drain on the welfare system. <font color="red">and the prison system, and the school system, and the legal system, and the insurance system, and the health system </font>
<font color="green">You may be right about them taking more than the give but they definitely serve a purpose.</font>


Since both the war on drugs and the welfare state are a pathetic failure. We should reasonably be able to do away with both, and the negatives they bring, <font color="red">eliminating the war on drugs would bring far worse negatives <font color="green"> Such as? </font> , welfare can exist if it is designed so it doesnt perpetuate what its trying to solve </font> <font color="green"> I agree 100% </font> while keeping our labor pool intact.

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[Copernicus]

Tobacco and alcohol are drugs but are not harmful on the scale of illegal drugs. Even pot, which is a misdemeanor offense for the user, is not on quite the same level as alcohol with regard to potential for abuse related problems. I don't think the war on drugs is particularly focused on pot at this point. If they run across a major farmer or smuggler they will make headlines over it. If you think cocaine/crack/meth/heroin would present a danger to society if they were legalized then you've never lived with someone with an addiction problem.

If their overall contribution is negative, whatever purpose they serve is irrelevant. That purpose can be replaced by something less negative.

[Edukashun]

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Tobacco and alcohol are drugs but are not harmful on the scale of illegal drugs. Even pot, which is a misdemeanor offense for the user, is not on quite the same level as alcohol with regard to potential for abuse related problems. I don't think the war on drugs is particularly focused on pot at this point. If they run across a major farmer or smuggler they will make headlines over it. If you think cocaine/crack/meth/heroin would present a danger to society if they were legalized then you've never lived with someone with an addiction problem.

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I honestly feel that people who are addicted to drugs (ie crack/smackheads) just have destructive personalities. If it wasn't drugs it would be drink (as serious as heroin if you are truly a drunk) or gambling, do you agree with banning gambling?

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If their overall contribution is negative, whatever purpose they serve is irrelevant. That purpose can be replaced by something less negative.

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I haven't read enough about the effects of immigration etc to but I think that a closed border policy does nothing but hurt the country implementing it.

[AWoodside]

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Tobacco and alcohol are drugs but are not harmful on the scale of illegal drugs. Even pot, which is a misdemeanor offense for the user, is not on quite the same level as alcohol with regard to potential for abuse related problems. I don't think the war on drugs is particularly focused on pot at this point. If they run across a major farmer or smuggler they will make headlines over it. If you think cocaine/crack/meth/heroin would present a danger to society if they were legalized then you've never lived with someone with an addiction problem.

If their overall contribution is negative, whatever purpose they serve is irrelevant. That purpose can be replaced by something less negative.

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Wow.

[NeBlis]

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2. Illegals are a necessary and useful part of our society. The only conceivable problem that they pose is a (hypothetical)drain on the welfare system.

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Well, that, and gang membership. MS-13 and the Mexican Mafia ftw.

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LOL selective quoting FTW!

try including the part of my post where I point the finger at the CAUSE of these gangs.

These gangs exist due to the black market drug economy. All of the money and the turf wars that come with it spring from a single seed. NO drug war, NO money, NO gangs.

I also fail to see the difference in Hispanic gangs and gangs of other racial makeups.

[NeBlis]

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<font color="red">drug laws exist because drugs are a danger to the individual and to society. drug offenders exist because they break those laws. </font>



<font color="red">they are not necessary, they may be useful, however their total utility is negative </font>


<font color="red">and the prison system, and the school system, and the legal system, and the insurance system, and the health system </font>

<font color="red">eliminating the war on drugs would bring far worse negatives, welfare can exist if it is designed so it doesnt perpetuate what its trying to solve </font>

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Copernicus,

Nothing I could write could refute or embarrass you more than your own words. So I will simply quote you (using the correct protocol) and leave it at that.