JJ...did I improve?

[James.]

ubersuperduper standard bet.

[BigBadBabar]

count, i guess it's an online vs live thing, or something. i would never ever not bet this. we have the probable fourth nuts and if anyone raises we can fold, and if anyone calls we can probably checkfold the river. for one bet we find out exactly where we are vs. everybody. checking, and then it's one bet back to us on each street, means we lose 2 bets.

[Lethe]

ubersuperduper? Yipes, I actually thought it was a lot closer than that.

You might be right... keeping initiative in the hand is a good thing, and we should be easily able to fold to a raise. The more I think about it, I think I might be changing my mind.

If we bet, those same small clubs we beat that might bet are probably calling the turn and river, and the Ac, Kc will probably raise us allowing us to get away from the hand. If we check, the small clubs might bet, but so will the Ac, Kc, and now we have to pay the turn and river to find out if we're good. We probably save a bet when behind and gain one when ahead.

[KitCloudkicker]

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and if anyone calls we can probably checkfold the river

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i dont understand why we should bet the turn then, if its turning our hand into a bluff. its not like we have to worry about getting outdrawn as i doubt anyone has a set.

[BigBadBabar]

because if you check then someone with a club is going to bet and you'll not be sure if it's the a, k, t, 8, or whatever, and often that means a confusion calldown. plus there's some tiny chance that a set or some other random [censored] will bet. it's not turning our hand into a bluff, it's more of a two-way bet.

[Fnord]

I would check here if the table has seen me run bet/fold lines.

[chesspain]

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because if you check then someone with a club is going to bet and you'll not be sure if it's the a, k, t, 8, or whatever, and often that means a confusion calldown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this some new kind of poker term? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Seriously, I'm more interested in the relative EV of a plan, rather than in our ability to guestimate whether we are beat or not, if we are ending up in the same place for the same price.

[BigBadBabar]

right, well i reckon that when we checkcall, checkcall, it costs us 2 bb, and we usually lose.

when we bet, if it gets raised we fold, and if we get called we can probably c/f the riv unless it's hu, so it costs us 1 and sometimes 2 bb.

so i like plan 2 more.

also i just like having the initiative in a hand, so i know if i get raised i'm usually no good. checking and letting your opponents play optimally = ew.

[chesspain]

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when we bet, if it gets raised we fold, and if we get called we can probably c/f the riv unless it's hu, so it costs us 1 and sometimes 2 bb.



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In a six-max game, I prefer to get to a showdown as cheaply as possible with this wa/wb hand, and not mistakingly fold a winner.

[Jantjebeton]

I like the b/f line after I read BBB's posts