NL25 TPTK on two-tone board - pot control vs. protection? - Page 3

toymach776 · #21 09-13-2007, 03:39 PM

I dont think that there are any 2 pair hands in his ranger here, definitly not any that beat you. Id be more concerned about AA, KK, or a boat given that player is passive. tough hand.

Mike Kelley · #22 09-13-2007, 03:50 PM

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Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to.

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Why so much?

[/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain

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Why do you think that a river push is profitable against a tight player?

[/ QUOTE ]30 hands. I am not drawing a conclusion out of this. I run 6/4 at some tables over 100 hands and 30/26 at others over the same sample...he could easily show up with KQ/QJ/JJ/TT here. Also even if he's tight preflop doesn't mean he knows how to play postflop. If I had a read that he's aggro I'd check the river on missed draws so he can push a worse hand but with no read I just go bet/bet/bet because it gets the most value.

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I think you are overrating his calling hands even if you think is average. I would only go bet-bet-bet with this hand against an opponent that I feel is definitely loose.

I really think being committed here is a bit much.

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What is your commitment threshold with TPTK?

threads13 · #23 09-13-2007, 03:58 PM

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Bet $3.25 or so. Bet river to.

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Why so much?

[/ QUOTE ]To setup a river push as well as charge him to draw out on me. Betting $3.25 on this turn would make the pot $10.85 on the river and villain

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Why do you think that a river push is profitable against a tight player?

[/ QUOTE ]30 hands. I am not drawing a conclusion out of this. I run 6/4 at some tables over 100 hands and 30/26 at others over the same sample...he could easily show up with KQ/QJ/JJ/TT here. Also even if he's tight preflop doesn't mean he knows how to play postflop. If I had a read that he's aggro I'd check the river on missed draws so he can push a worse hand but with no read I just go bet/bet/bet because it gets the most value.

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I think you are overrating his calling hands even if you think is average. I would only go bet-bet-bet with this hand against an opponent that I feel is definitely loose.

I really think being committed here is a bit much.

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What is your commitment threshold with TPTK?

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You mean my target SPR you think? The commitment threshold is just when you are 2 bets away from being AI.

My target SPR against an average opponent is going to be about 4.

Mike Kelley · #24 09-13-2007, 04:01 PM

Does that mean you are trying to play this pot for $4 ?

threads13 · #25 09-13-2007, 04:06 PM

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Does that mean you are trying to play this pot for $4 ?

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Heh, no. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It means in order to get AI with TPTK I am hoping the the stacks are 4x the size of the final preflop pot.

Any larger and the opponent will not get AI with worse hands often enough to make getting AI profitable.

Renton · #26 09-13-2007, 04:11 PM

raise pre to 1 dollar

bet more on turn, honestly checking is better than the amount you bet

c/c any bet on river

also, im troubled by "paired board to worry about." Oh bummer, it sucks that they had a set which just became a full house. They were beating you both times anyway. The only thing bad about the board pairing on the turn is if villain called your raise with 3x and just hit trips.

In actuality the board pairing is awesome for you, because it makes it significantly less likely that he had a set on the flop.

So. You have a 60bb stack, with two bets left in his stack by the turn, and TPTK on a draw heavy board where all draws are still out. You are only beat by an unlikely set or KK+. You beat a ton of combination of Qx and straight and flush draws. Bet the turn.

Once river blanks, that means a large part of villains hand range also just blanked, so now you either bet the rest of his stack if you think he'll call with worse, or you check and call a bluff from the busted draws. If his stack was perfectly like 80% of the pot, i'd go for the c/c.

Mike Kelley · #27 09-13-2007, 04:29 PM

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Does that mean you are trying to play this pot for $4 ?

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Heh, no. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It means in order to get AI with TPTK I am hoping the the stacks are 4x the size of the final preflop pot.

Any larger and the opponent will not get AI with worse hands often enough to make getting AI profitable.

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So since I would get more aggressive than that you would fold and I would win the hand. How do you adjust it? Do you keep raising the SPR against an opponent that constantly plays more aggressively than you?

threads13 · #28 09-13-2007, 04:35 PM

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Does that mean you are trying to play this pot for $4 ?

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Heh, no. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

It means in order to get AI with TPTK I am hoping the the stacks are 4x the size of the final preflop pot.

Any larger and the opponent will not get AI with worse hands often enough to make getting AI profitable.

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So since I would get more aggressive than that you would fold and I would win the hand. How do you adjust it? Do you keep raising the SPR against an opponent that constantly plays more aggressively than you?

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If an opponent is playing overly aggressive against me then I will raise my target SPR against him when he is being aggressive. If an opponent is just going to bluff 3-streets at me then I will check the them on all 3 streets and call him down. In this case my target SPR becomes something like 8-13.