Would a B&M TAG have the same VPIP as an online TAG?

[Cactus Jack]

Poker is poker. This is why there is no separate forums for live and online strategy on 2+2. Imagine how much bad advice would come from it.

I understand now, Masters of the Universe.

[KurtSF]

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Also, the rake and dealer tokes reduces longterm profitablilty using a strictly TAG strategy. Therefore B&M players must compensate by occasionaly playing bigger multiway pots using a wider range of hands.



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This is exactly backwards. The fewer hands you play the smaller the effect of rake and tips on your profitability (fewer wins = less rake).

In a timed game (not raked) a TAG strategy works against your profitability. You are paying to sit there and fold.

[Clover362]

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Unless you have superhuman patience, you simply cannot sit there for stretches of 30-40 minutes at a time without playing hands.

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If you can't sit still for 30-40 minutes you should'nt play poker live.

[FireStorm]

All the online nits say the same thing. Try going to a casino and putting it into practice. I find it amusing how you think it's easy to sit there and do absolutely nothing but watch people splash chips around, for blocks that take up most of an hour's time. Sorry, but live we don't have the conveinience of being in our house while playing 250 hands an hour and being able to distract ourselves with AOL IM while we fold.

[KurtSF]

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Sorry, but live we don't have the conveinience of being in our house while playing 250 hands an hour and being able to distract ourselves with AOL IM while we fold.

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You could try, I don't know, watching the game and figuring out your opponents?

[FireStorm]

Very cute and creative. Clearly this was a dynamic I had not considered. Thank you for bringing this amazing bit of previously undiscovered information to my attention.

Obviously, you can spend time observing betting tendencies, applying reads, and gathering general information, as well as getting an online-like assessment of stack sizes, etc. However:
A) many hands are routine and don't really possess much in terms of things to analyze to occupy your time
B) unless you are the world's most amazing and patient poker player, human nature will take over after so long and you will be bored of sitting there doing nothing, it's not as simple as you make it sound.

[iron81]

Also, the looser your opponents are, the looser you can play. If people like to raise or limp-call T-7, more of your hands are ahead of their range.

[DRD66]

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You could try, I don't know, watching the game and figuring out your opponents?


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This simple yet valuable piece of advice, while deemed worthy of sarcasm by Firestorm, is CONSTANTLY ignored by otherwise good players.

I'm always amazed to see a player whose game seems solid still call or even raise an LPP who wakes up and leads out on the turn. If said fish had a big "45/2/.3" above his head, you'd fold in an instant. Yet many TAGs turn into calling stations 'cause they weren't paying attention.

How do you beat someone playing any 2 who keeps beating you with crap 2pr ? KNOW THEIR TENDENCIES! For a long time I wondered why I always seemed to do well early in sessions and then losing late. It's because I watched everyone closely when I first sat down, and when I'd got a handle on the table I stopped paying attention. People cycle through these games like **** through a goose, and that guy you thought was solid may actually be a fish who's been hitting the deck for the first hour you were there. Precisely because B&M play is slower and you see fewer hands, it's CRITICAL to always watch and figure them out quickly.

If that's too complicated, just watch the game on the big screen and check out the cocktail waitresses. I'll be the guy sitting to your left.

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If you can't sit still for 30-40 minutes you should'nt play poker live.


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[SellingtheDrama]

Live game plays substantially different than an online game, any good player's optimal play is always to adapt to the table.

And I learned B&M style after learning online with pokertracker, I always think in terms of what-would-PT-say when playing live.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Save the pointless stats with acronym friggin' names for some forum other than brick and mortar. This is where people go to avoid reading such bullpucky. If you have any experience at all with live play you'll know that we don't friggin' use vpip, ipip, upip they-pip or butt-pip in live play.

Sheesh.