Crap spot I got myself into ($5.50)

[Brocktoon]

I know an argument can be made for betting the flop, in this case UTG+1 seemed rather LAG and I didn't think a standard CB on this raggy flop would take it down.

I was planning on making a small CR on this flop or folding if UTG+1 bet and was called by the button. I figured a free card was ok too.

I'm most interested in the turn decision though as I'm getting about 3:1 and could feasibly have up to 18 outs.

Anyway:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t1380
UTG+1: t2600
MP1: t1470
MP2: t1470
MP3: t1260
CO: t630
Button: t2220
SB: t1000
BB: t1470

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t120</font>, UTG+1 calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t165)</font>, 4 folds, Button calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t285)</font>, 2 folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t405, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, Button checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t405, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t300</font>, UTG+1 calls t300 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t705)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to t1020</font>, Hero... (pot 2025/720 to call)?

[freeucm]

ug betting flushes on turn are difficult because for me they never come, as played, you will still have about 900-1000 left behind...only about a 18% chance of hitting on river so it looks to be a fold.

[Insty]

If you are not betting this flop, you also do not want to be betting the turn.
There is no way you have 18 outs here.

[LuckyJohn]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are not betting this flop, you also do not want to be betting the turn.
There is no way you have 18 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are not betting this flop, you also do not want to be betting the turn.
There is no way you have 18 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn is completely different from the flop though. The flop got checked around, indicating maybe everyone missed, and I now have the nut flush draw and a gutshot wheel. I don't see the connection or why if I'm not betting one I shouldn't bet the other since they are such diffrent situations.

In any case I was considering CRing the flop because I felt that was the line that gave me the most fold equity as I didn't think a flop CB would take it down agaisnt UTG+1 who was very loose.

Also, you never answered the question: as played, do you think I should call the turn? How many outs do I have against his range?

[Anna.]

I don't mind the delayed c-bet, but you have to keep in mind that you're firing into two players. It's a lot easier to do this into one player. Also, maybe bet 200 or so, slightly easier to get away from and very doubtful the other two players will change their play because of the smaller bet. If they do, there's a chance they would lean toward a more passive line. If they don't, again you have less comitted and can't more easily fold.

[martinimagic]

You need to either bet the flop or check through on the turn. A bet on the flop might just win the hand and at the very least eliminate the button from the hand. A bet of 200 on the flop seems easier to get away from and leaves 1000 behind to fight with later on. At this stage of SNG you just put yourself in a tough situation with low blinds.

A better way to play this hand is to bet 90 preflop, maybe 75 at the very least, the pot is 315 and if you still maintain the same game play bet 150 on the turn. Now you have controlled the pot to a size where a fold becomes easier on the turn leaving 1100 with plenty of time to fight.

[ger664]

A loose villian who u think will call a c-bet will not fold to a c/r.

Check the turn. I can see a delayed c-bet against one but not against 2 on this board.

As for your question on the turn. Are you really considering calling and leaving yourself with t240 afterwards ??

The real question is do u shove ??

You need 36% equity here from a ICM point if view which means you need all 18 outs to be good. This is never true as your AK will not always be good and a 5 gives you the idiots end of the str8. No.

[mortimo]

I like the value-raise preflop. With a higher buy-in I raise to t100. As played, I check the flop and CRAI on the turn unless I get a cheap river.

As played, fold to the raise, I think

[BicVicTheQuick]

Preflop is fine! You have a strong hand and want everybody to pay to play with you. At these levels you will see a lot of people call your raise with dominated hands like AQ or KQ or even KJ etc. If the table is loose I would sometimes even raise more preflop. Reason is that your loose opponents will more probably stick around when the pot is big and they hit something (at these buy-ins even bottom pair seems to be the nuts for most villains). The times you hit the flop and crush someone will compensate more then enough for the times you miss and need to c/f.

Flop: No reason to bet into loose opp. here. They will call too often and you would need to c/f the turn unimproved. So your line is fine.

Turn: As already mentioned there is also no reason to bet here. You have just a draw and I would be inclined to see if I could get a free card. A bet is bad here as you will need to fold if you get raised (as mentioned, there is no way you have that many clean outs here!!). So a ceck and a call (depending on the size of the bet and your resulting pot odds + the possiblity of a raise from a live player behind) would be the better line here.

As played: You bet 3/4 pot inton a scary board and got a caller and a reraise. Calling is no option as this would leave you 240 chips. What about shoving? You would need to invest your 960 chips to win a pot of 2265 (assuming UTG+1 folds and the Button calls the 240) so you have pot odds of 2,35:1. This is by far not enough as you probably have only 7-6 outs (Button seems to have a made flush and UTG+1 was probably calling with a high club..) which means you are a 6:1 or 7:1 dog. Even if you had 9 clean outs for the flush you would be a 4:1 dog so this is really an EASY fold.

Call only if you are playing against me, because then you had a 99% chance to hit your flush on the river [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]