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#81
09-12-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
I 4-bet pushed into Dbitel along time ago with 33 and he of course called and won with KK. Afterward, he made fun of me and told me it was better to push with AXs (ala CTS post), but I argued that a small pocket pair had higher EV because Dbitel *always* 3-bet with his AK and often his AQ range.
However, it's all really just a matter of playing with numbers and adjusting. And speedlimits you should rethink how you're going to balance your small vs large 4-bets. 
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#82
09-12-2007, 03:42 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
Posted by Big_Jim in the Getting 3-bet at a high rate thread:
ADJUSTMENTS OUT OF POSITION: Generally, when the player directly to my left starts re-raising really light, I prefer to adjust by tightening up a little bit, and 4-betting more often. When I do decide to call/check raise a lot of flops with a weak hand, I'd prefer to have small cards and, pairs. Other than that, the only big cards that I'd ever really call with are AK/AQ/KQ, with these stacks, AQ and KQ being trouble. Even with AQ and KQ, you have to have a lot of history to be able to play confidently if you flop a pair, especially if you want to play a big pot. KT/QJ/QT/JT kind of hands are just so easily dominated, and so rarely dominating (even by a loose PFRRer) that trying to play them OOP in a re-raised pot is just asking for trouble. Here, you are OOP against a "loose re-raiser" where you don't have much information about his post-flop play, with only 100BBs. Calling here cannot be profitable. You could re-raise here, and that will probably fold a lot of his range, and that could a fine and good play, but I'd usually just toss it. ADJUSTMENTS IN POSITION: In position, the call/raise lots of flops line becomes a whole lot more attractive. We force him to put a bet in blind that is often free monies, and that might tip his hand. If he doesn't, we can take a freebie, if we want it. Also, if we DON'T want it, a bet here from us typically looks pretty damn weak, and we can get a ton of value over as many streets as we want. You can call quite a bit looser since plays like floating weak draws, and playing draws in general, become a lot more profitable. As far as hand ranges, I still tend to stay away from offsuit broadways, for the same reasons as before, but if you really have a good line on a guy, they can be big money makers, since they flop top pair a lot. The other nice thing about big cards, is that even when they miss, they have a lot better semi-bluffing opportunities than small cards, since you'll very often have a 6 out semi-bluff. 4 betting still has it's place, of course, but very often it's not nearly as profitable.
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#83
09-12-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] the pokerstove numbers are wrongmisleading, they don't take into account the fact that if you have Ax then your opponent is less likely to have an ace as well (ie AK/AA, the hands that really hurt Axs's equity, are less likely). just saying. [/ QUOTE ] wrong...they totally take it into account. [/ QUOTE ] No, they don't.
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#84
09-12-2007, 04:00 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] the pokerstove numbers are wrongmisleading, they don't take into account the fact that if you have Ax then your opponent is less likely to have an ace as well (ie AK/AA, the hands that really hurt Axs's equity, are less likely). just saying. [/ QUOTE ] wrong...they totally take it into account. [/ QUOTE ] No, they don't. [/ QUOTE ] If you type in an exact hand they do. i don't have a pc right now, so i can't verify. but i'm almost positive that if you type in. Hero's Range: Ah4h Villain's Range: AA That it will assign 12 possible ways to make AA.
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#86
09-12-2007, 04:08 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] the pokerstove numbers are wrongmisleading, they don't take into account the fact that if you have Ax then your opponent is less likely to have an ace as well (ie AK/AA, the hands that really hurt Axs's equity, are less likely). just saying. [/ QUOTE ] wrong...they totally take it into account. [/ QUOTE ] No, they don't. [/ QUOTE ] If you type in an exact hand they do. i don't have a pc right now, so i can't verify. but i'm almost positive that if you type in. Hero's Range: Ah4h Villain's Range: AA That it will assign 12 possible ways to make AA. [/ QUOTE ] That's not what we're talking about. If we have KQ, then there are less ways to make KK/QQ/AK and therefore we have added fold equity when 4 betting even though our equity is crap when called still. Pokerstove can't calculate fold equity. But you're right in the example you gave, pokerstove takes into account cards already in play.
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#87
09-12-2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] the pokerstove numbers are wrongmisleading, they don't take into account the fact that if you have Ax then your opponent is less likely to have an ace as well (ie AK/AA, the hands that really hurt Axs's equity, are less likely). just saying. [/ QUOTE ] wrong...they totally take it into account. [/ QUOTE ] No, they don't. [/ QUOTE ] If you type in an exact hand they do. i don't have a pc right now, so i can't verify. but i'm almost positive that if you type in. Hero's Range: Ah4h Villain's Range: AA That it will assign 12 possible ways to make AA. [/ QUOTE ] That's not what we're talking about. If we have KQ, then there are less ways to make KK/QQ/AK and therefore we have added fold equity when 4 betting even though our equity is crap when called still. Pokerstove can't calculate fold equity. But you're right in the example you gave, pokerstove takes into account cards already in play. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, you are correct. I was obviously off topic. i thought we were talking about equity not fold equity.
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#88
09-12-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
Hero's Range: Ah4h Villain's Range: AA That it will assign 12 possible ways to make AA. [/ QUOTE ] ???? i don't think so. but yes pokerstove accounts for other known cards. OOP with 44, -- if villain has a loose 3 bet range, then choose between raise or fold. either you will have plenty of fold eq, or enough equity v villain's 4 bet calling range. -- if villain has a tight 3 bet range, then choose between call or fold. the tighter his range, the more likely you are to stack him with a set, and hence the lower SPR needed to make a call +EV.
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#90
09-12-2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: 100NL What are good hands to 4bet with?
[ QUOTE ]
4bet light or never 4bet or you can always 4bet smaller with the intent to fold this is a bad 4bet [/ QUOTE ] I disagree with 2 of these statements.
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