Playing against a limp/reraise

[chesspain]

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A LRR from MP1 could mean many things but the majority of the time it does not mean AA,KK,AK.



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Unless the MP1 who LRR is the first player who puts money into the pot, in which case it usually is AA/KK.

[HoneyBadger]

Yeah, imho there are 3 common scenarios for a LRR. First, someone in early position with a premium hand fears there will either not be any action, or thinks he may get more action. Second, someone initially limps in with a speculative hand, such as QJs or 98s, and figures that with so many people in the pot he has an equity edge now -- or mistakingly thinks he gives himself odds to draw by making the pot bigger. Finally, there's the retard who raises either out of simple frutration, to gambol and build a big pot, or because he believes that by taking initiative now he can bully everyone out of this big pot.

Lol, I actually have a 100% win rate on LRR's with non-premium hands. Guess you have to pick your spots...

In 220k hands I did it 72 times, out of which 55 were {QQ+, AKs, AKo} haha this one's funny. (was just checking my database to see my LRRs)


Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero calls, 6 folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7SB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5BB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 4.5BB

[Frond]

Online can't really say the LRR range for sure but I would imagine that it is wider range than live play. Live I have only seen AK one time and the rest of the times it was always AA or KK &amp; more often than not AA. Just what I have seen.

[Xhad]

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There was a post from a long time ago where someone looked for all LRRs in a database and something like 1/3 of them were AA/KK, most of the rest was random stupidity.

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Filter out people who are randomly stupid, then filter again for games that are tight pre-flop. Curious what that number would be.

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It'd still probably be pretty big because in my experience the good players at 2/4-5/10 don't open-limp at all.

[Ricks]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A LRR from MP1 could mean many things but the majority of the time it does not mean AA,KK,AK.



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Unless the MP1 who LRR is the first player who puts money into the pot, in which case it usually is AA/KK.

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I grant you that when the LRR comes from the first person in the pot there is a higher likelyhood that he has a real hand than if he did not. However, I believe that they still do not have the goods that often.

Dug up that LRR study: Jake (The Snake) LRR

[Hyperrrprank]

I limp reraise with 89s, and sometimes 78s, but only if I hit all my conditions. They are that I am in late/middle position, that I limp in and get at least 3 or 4 other players in (either limping before the raise or calling it cold). I also need it to be in a hand with a number of loose, bad players, since my reason for the move is to tie them to the pot with marginal hands. I, on the other hand, am gone immediately if I don't catch at least a monster draw.

So far it has been successful, not a big enough sample size to really tell.

[BigBadBabar]

hyper, can you just send me half that money instead of lighting it on fire? you get to keep the other half, so we both profit. pm me.

[Fnord]

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LRR is so often a hand like 98s.

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Is this kind of stuff based on observation? The vast majority of LRR hands from that thread were either the real deal, pocket pairs or suited broadways. When it wasn't AA/KK/AK, then it was a reasonable limping hand that either flipped the spew bit or decided to build a big pot.

Anyway, I'd love to filter that list to weed out a bunch of spots where the LRR is clearly FoS.

Given:
o Opponent who seems to take the game seriously
o First to enter the pot from early position. Last 6 spots don't count.
o The re-raise doesn't cap the action
o Table is playing somewhat tight with a soft spot or two.

I think you're seeing KK+/AK quite a lot.

[Gap23Razor]

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LRR is so often a hand like 98s.

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This isn't my observation. Also, the times I've toyed in that game it's usually a bunch of ABC players who spew off terribly post-flop with a couple soft spots mixed in. If the table texture is such that EP raises aren't getting action from weak hands, I think a KK+/AK limp re-raise from a player who isn't a known soft spot is credible.

Meh.

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well, i used to be pretty ironclad in my thinking that a preflop limp/reraise meant AA or KK's...but i think i've seen it with something weaker as many times as with the top two pair hands-perhaps because i don't cold-call preflop much...now i hang in there to the turn

anyway, for this hand, i don't know that i would have raised with KQo and created this problem, but as played i would call the limp/reraise and hope to catch a hand...the villain is liable to charge ahead for a few rounds and if i have something cooking i could get a big payoff to make up for the times the limp/reraise hand beats me...

[HoneyBadger]

God, tonight alone I've seen 3 that weren't premiums...