Can a Dealer Coach a Player During a Hand?

[bernie]

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but if it's a new player in a low limit game, they're probably better off asking for the cards to be turned up IF the player hasn't thrown them towards the dealer/muck.

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You tell him that AFTER the hand. Not during.

b

[bernie]

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I think at showdown all hands should play. I don't like to win because of a trick. During the hand, I want you to misread your hand. At showdown, let's just see who wins.


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I agree. As long as they table their hands by themselves. The hand doesn't end until cards are tabled and the pot is pushed. Untabled hands means the hand is still going and in play.

It's not a trick if someone misreads their (better or tying) hand and mucks. That's how live poker works. It's also a lesson you only really need to learn once.

b

[pfapfap]

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I think at showdown all hands should play, let's just see who wins.

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If you want to give poker lessons do it between hands.
Tell the noob that if he's not sure what he has he can
turn over his hand at showdown and the dealer will read it.
Until he tables his hand it's "one player to a hand".
If there's a royal flush on board and my opponent is
trying to muck, you muck his cards and push me the pot.

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This is what I do. I just disagree with it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I also disagree with IWTSTH, and I turbo muck and/or "don't hear" requests sometimes, depending on the players and circumstances.

But I will NEVER turn a hand up or reverse a muck. For that matter, our room has a magical muck, with which I also disagree. If a player threw his hand forward and I was holding it but it hadn't hit the muck, the floor would probably rule it live.

But, by and large, I shut up and put up. Besides, in general neither the floor nor the players seem to know much about poker rules or etiquette, so why should I get involved?

[Rick Nebiolo]

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I'll muck it. I won't prolong it, but I won't insta-muck either. I will, however, clearly announce the winning hand and push the entire board up. At lower levels I'll be a bit slower to muck, but I still don't think I'd ever say anything because someone would get upset and I don't feel a need to irritate my supervisors.

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I think you're showing the judgment of Solomon here.

~ Rick

[Sevenfold]

Notes on my story---

10/20 stud, check/check river I have bare aces.

Villian says good as all my cards are up. He drops his hole cards face down and pushes them towards dealer.

Dealer says she needs to see both hands. I say no, just the winning hand has to show, if he doesn't want to show, fine with me.

So the dealer reaches over and flips up his cards!!! Showing the 2 small pair he made while trying for a straight.

I go nuts but I know I'm gonna lose once the cards are up.

The floor comes over and AGREES with the dealer. Took me two days before I could find a floor who said I was right.

One guess at the casino.

[bav]

In a baby game where the players are likely ignorant of house rules, it's ok to be sure the player realizes he can't make a claim for a pot without showing his cards. Some folks may toss their cards forward thinking "I'm playing the board" not realizing they are giving up a claim to the pot. So the dealer can verify the player is not intending to play the board, but anything beyond that is violating one player to a hand.

Caesars NL5/10 dealer needs to be disciplined and the floor needs to take the pot from TT and give it to the other player. TT gave up a claim to the pot and the dealer violated one player to a hand to return the cards to him. Unacceptable, and the player shouldn't be allowed to profit from getting outside help when he had conceded the pot. (I know there's at least one floor at Caesars who will see it this way, since he told me a story once about exactly this sorta thing happening to him and how he had to fight to get the pot and put up with a Mandalay floor person telling him he was being a dick for insisting the player who mucked didn't get the pot after a friend told him to pull his cards back and turn 'em over.)

[RR]

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Notes on my story---

10/20 stud, check/check river I have bare aces.

Villian says good as all my cards are up. He drops his hole cards face down and pushes them towards dealer.

Dealer says she needs to see both hands. I say no, just the winning hand has to show, if he doesn't want to show, fine with me.

So the dealer reaches over and flips up his cards!!! Showing the 2 small pair he made while trying for a straight.

I go nuts but I know I'm gonna lose once the cards are up.

The floor comes over and AGREES with the dealer. Took me two days before I could find a floor who said I was right.

One guess at the casino.

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You should have been pushed this pit. Most places a player's hand is dead by rule if the dealer turns it up. Are the games really that good to play in places where they are completely unfamiliar with poker rules and procedures?

[Magicmanu]

The rule is simple. No one should EVER tell another player to turn his cards up. IF a player tables his cards face down, the dealer's only job is to take them and muck them (though in some circumstances I can see a dealer confirming the action). Similarly, no other player should advise a player to turn the cards up. If cards are tabled face up, then cards speak.

Just last week I was all in against two other players, all with about even stacks. At showdown I showed AA; Player 2 showed QQ; Player 3 mucked. Another player (anbd I hate this rule, too) asked to see the mucked hand, which was AK for the nut flush. Fortunately, the dealer had killed the hand and I dragged a nice pot.

As Bernie said, it's a lesson you only need to learn once.

[bav]

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Fortunately, the dealer had killed the hand and I dragged a nice pot.

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A minor nit, but NO, the dealer did not kill the hand. The dealer cannot kill a hand. The whole, ridiculous, stupid, "touch the cards to the muck and then turn them over" thing has no actual significance to the game (in most casinos--there do supposedly exist those few places where the muck is magical and any cards that get close enough to the muck to breath its fumes die). If you won the pot, hopefully it's simply because the guy had folded at the showdown and conceded the pot. Someone not in the hand asking to see the cards doesn't not bring them back into play. That's a completely standard rule, whether or not the dealer has done some theatrics of "killing the hand by touching it to the muck". Those theatrics may be useful to the floor on the far side of the room or to the cameras who otherwise might be confused as to why the best hand isn't getting the pot, or why the dealer is turning a player's cards face up.

[OrangeKing]

Here's a question - if the player with the winning hand in the OP's situation did muck, does he still win half the pot? He made it to showdown and can split without either of the cards in his hand.

Edit: Never mind, I think this was answered above, with the answer being "no."