3xBB or shove vs blinds - quickie

[MadLibs]

Hero has 22K on button
Sb has 10.5K
BB has 9K

blinds 500/1000
Live game. Hero has been TAG, restealing and not showing down.
8 handed 5 folds.
Hero has 9h Th. Hero?

Given the stacks, I shove here often. Are there any arguments for a simple 2.5-3x raise? I figure I rate decently enough against any call.

[earck]

I like shoving here, the effective M's for the other two players are very small, they will need to commit all their chips in any pot they play anyway and if their playing requirements will be loose enough where if you standard raise you have to call the all in anyway.

[4CardStraight]

Shove.

We wouldn't push under this circumstance:

They are nitty players that will 3bet shove bluff absolutely never, or possibly under 1% of the time, and they will 3bet shove for value with only the top 3%. If so, I would make it 2400 preflop, and fold to a push.

So almost never would I just raise. I much prefer to push, since against any player that will overshove with say as wide as top 8% I am just about getting the right price to call a push anyway, so I would rather push first.

You do run across this type. They tend to be old guys that will literally only 3bet with QQ+ even with stacks this small. Against them I might even just min-raise to flag my hand as aces if I had never min raised yet this tournament. Maybe they muck JJ or TT instead of calling LOL.

[JammyDodga]

2.5x sucks, push or fold territory for sure...

[BrandiFan]

[ QUOTE ]
2.5x sucks, push or fold territory for sure...

[/ QUOTE ]nah, his explanation of a very rare case is perfectly fine. He preceded it with the caveat that it's almost always a shove if played.
Read OP again Jammy, he asked if there is any argument for a non-shove raise...

[MadLibs]

Thanks for the clarification - I know the 3x sucks, here's what I meant to ask: Is folding EVER appropriate here?

[earck]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the clarification - I know the 3x sucks, here's what I meant to ask: Is folding EVER appropriate here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not with the blinds/stack ratio for the players here, I can't think of any reason to fold other than if this was a sat that paid 2 seats.

[JammyDodga]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2.5x sucks, push or fold territory for sure...

[/ QUOTE ]nah, his explanation of a very rare case is perfectly fine. He preceded it with the caveat that it's almost always a shove if played.
Read OP again Jammy, he asked if there is any argument for a non-shove raise...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, 4card snuck in and posted while i was typing mine, so this wasn't a response to him but to OP, so sorry if it came across that way.

[BrandiFan]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the clarification - I know the 3x sucks, here's what I meant to ask: Is folding EVER appropriate here?

[/ QUOTE ]Sure, if you think that villians might be fed up with your aggression and call you light out of spite.
You're still going to have a good shot to win, but you might end up getting played back at a bunch it you show this down.
So, if you think that you'll lose a bunch of future steal equity you may want to fold here.

[BrandiFan]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, 4card snuck in and posted while i was typing mine, so this wasn't a response to him but to OP, so sorry if it came across that way.

[/ QUOTE ]
oic, that makes sense [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]