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#23
09-10-2007, 09:45 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
Well i'm not sure about $50, but i can tell you at $25 if you are 4bet and you have KK atleast 80% of the time you will see AA. [/ QUOTE ] Hello 2+2. Long time lurker, first time poster. I currently play NL25 and find that this is not true. Just yesterday I got into a PF raising war which resulted with all-ins my KK vs. his AKo. Blinds battle as well. Lost to broadway ofc. 2 times before when my KK met pre flop restistance I lost to QQ flopping a set. But I saw this happening with 99 vs. JJ or AQs vs. AKo and similar. And those were not shortstacks. My experience tells me people at NL25 will push much worse than KK for 100BB and I am not folding. 
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#24
09-10-2007, 09:59 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
I have a hard time folding QQ preflop at NL 50 because of the hands I see people go in with. Leak? At the same time, lately I've seen a lot of people flat call a 3 bet with KK/AA and then shove over a flop bet (assuming all unders). Anyone ever get away from QQ or JJ there?
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#25
09-10-2007, 11:31 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
Well i'm not sure about $50, but i can tell you at $25 if you are 4bet and you have KK atleast 80% of the time you will see AA. [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately your "statistic" above is based on your individual observations and is not accurate. You also need to remember that the human memory is very selective. You are more likely to remember the instances you lose to AA than the instances you win against another hand. This skews your perceptions. If you do a thorough game analysis from extensive data mining, you'll probably find that this number is significantly lower. I would imagine the "correctness" of folding KK preflop can be a function of stack size, but is probably not linear. If you are playing 0.25/0.50 for 100BB, it is not correct to fold KK preflop. Ever. If you are playing 0.25/0.50 for 10,000BB, it is probably correct to fold KK preflop if your opponent moves in. But then again, optimal play in such a game would probably be simply to move in with AA and fold everything else, or to find a game with higher stakes where this is not an issue.
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#26
09-10-2007, 11:35 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
I'm not sure how this thread is still going, but since it is I guess I'll give it a serious reply.
Guys, mathematically, if villain will 4bet/5bet with ANYTHING besides AA and KK, it's correct to shove. You're 50/50 as long as his range includes one other hand. With dead money in the pot, you're way ahead of that. Believe me, his range always includes a 3rd hand. Villain will show up with AA alot...yes. But that's not the point. Even if that's the case, we still have enough equity because of all the dead money.
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#27
09-10-2007, 11:35 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I never fold KK pre. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ]
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#28
09-10-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
Just this weekend I got it all in preflop with Kings twice... once it was AK and the other time it was A10.
I of course lost both times... as will you. The point is, it doesn't matter what they have. You're going to lose. Just get it all in then curse at how unlucky you are. Then move on. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#29
09-10-2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: folding KK preflop
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure how this thread is still going, but since it is I guess I'll give it a serious reply. Guys, mathematically, if villain will 4bet/5bet with ANYTHING besides AA and KK, it's correct to shove. You're 50/50 as long as his range includes one other hand. With dead money in the pot, you're way ahead of that. Believe me, his range always includes a 3rd hand. Villain will show up with AA alot...yes. But that's not the point. Even if that's the case, we still have enough equity because of all the dead money. [/ QUOTE ] Other than that, you'll get 4:1 odds on a shove often enough when villain 4/5bets.
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