How to "run it twice"? Procedure?

[ptartaglio]

What is the procedure to run it twice? So the flop is dealt, the players want to run it twice after they get all-in on the flop. Does the dealer burn for the first turn card and then for the first river? Does the dealer burn for the second turn and then for the second river? What are the procedures or common ways this is done?

[PJo336]

burn turn burn river, burn turn burn river was my belief

[metsandfinsfan]

yeah you would complete the hand one time, and then burn and turn the turn and river again a second

[holdem2000]

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burn turn burn river, burn turn burn river was my belief

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standard for casinos

[gedanken]

really -- no shuffle? that would harm the "behind" player's chances of winning twice, because he'd be using up one of his outs the first time through. small effect, I guess.

similar drill for all-in preflop (deal out one board, burn a card, deal the 2nd board)?

[ChrisV]

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really -- no shuffle? that would harm the "behind" player's chances of winning twice, because he'd be using up one of his outs the first time through. small effect, I guess.

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No, there's no change in the player's odds of winning, because if they fail to hit on the first turn and river, there are non-out cards removed from the deck. Even though this is a smaller effect, it happens more frequently, so that the two effects exactly balance out. One quick way to show this is to imagine running it 44 times with just the river to deal. According to you, each out card dealt would harm the chances of the behind player. But of course, if you deal out all 44 possible rivers, you would end up with each player getting exactly the EV of their hand from the pot.

Here's another demonstration. Let's say you're running it twice with only the river to deal and you have one out with three cards left in the deck. Forget about burning cards. If you run it twice without shuffling, you have a 1/3 chance of hitting on the first try and 1/2 on the second time if you don't hit the first time. So you win:

1/3 * [half pot] + 2/3 * 1/2 * [half pot]

= 1/3 * [half pot] + 1/3 * [half pot]

= 2/3 * [half pot]

You multiply the second bit by 2/3 because that is the chance of not hitting on the first try (if you do hit on the first try, you have no chance of hitting on the second).

Now let's try it reshuffling. You have a 1/3 chance of hitting both times, so your expectation is:

1/3 * [half pot] + 1/3 * [half pot]

= 2/3 * [half pot]

Exactly the same.

[TonyZ]

Will all casinos allow you to do this? How will you know if they will allow it?