Two semibluffs against some tags

[samh133]

I like hand 2 more than hand 1. I think you're going to see a set a lot in hand 1.

[Nick Royale]

I'd just call in hand 1 without a read that he's capable of raising c/r 3-ways flops as bluffs.


In hand 2 I prefer raising the flop unless you know he'll 2nd barrel a lot, even in crappy spots.

On the turn in hand 2 you don't really want to price yourself in unless the extra money you put in adds a good portion of fe (obv). However it can be tricky to do the ev calcs at the table and I guess raising to a reasonable ammount where you know what to do if he pushes is ok.

My main problem with the 2nd hand is that unless you know he'll 2nd barrel a lot you're up against a pretty strong range on the turn.

[samh133]

Yea in hand 2 without a strong read I'd just call the turn and try to hit for cheap. Most of the time I'd just raise the flop if I was going to raise.

[riverspecialist]

on hand 1 id check behind, and just call the c/r. i like hand 2, people still dont expect semibluffs on the turn

[Jay Riall]

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My main problem with the 2nd hand is that unless you know he'll 2nd barrel a lot you're up against a pretty strong range on the turn.

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Actually yeah, I've changed my mind about hand 2 mainly because of this point.

[DrMagic]

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Don't like 1, his line is pretty strong, I think he rarely folds here.
Number 2 is ok except i dont think you need to raise so much on the turn

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Yeah I dunno, in hand 2 I wanted to raise an amount that committed me to calling a shove. I was pretty sure this is around the raise size that would do just that. I'm not sure if there is any difference in EV between raising an amount that committs me to calling a shove or raising with my straight draw and then folding to a shove because I didn't price myself in, but I just don't ever want to raise/fold my draw with these stack sizes, for metagame I guess, or because I love to gamble.

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I don't think a bigger raise there gains more FE in this spot against this type of player. I prefer making it about 175 and folding to a shove.
EDIT: I also agree with Nick that semibluffing this spot can't be very good unless you have an idea whether villain will double barrel or bet thin

[aislephive]

Yeah, good posts by all.

I figured for hand 1 there wasn't many hands he would play this way for value, probably only 88/55 and maaaaybe AQ. I also thought there was a decent chance he would just call with a set because UTG was a loose donk and probably would want him to stick around with lots of stuff. Villain had a set of fives though and I was left drawing dead on the Q turn.

Hand 2 I agree that a smaller raise probably actually has more FE here, despite likely not giving me correct odds to call a shove. I think a turn raise is a lot stronger than a flop raise, but that's likely negated because his range to bet the turn is quite a bit stronger than his flop leading range. Villain had bottom set and I didn't improve.

[FGators]

People need to recognize the difference between a heads up pot and a multiway pot in doing these types of semibluffs/bluffs/making hero calls/etc.

If I ever write a poker book (Lord help us all) this will be one of my main theorems and one that has held up consistently true throughout the thousands upon thousands of NL hold'em cash game hands I've put in throughout various levels (NL 50 through NL 600 with some NL 1000 tossed in).

Poker players, from top level to bad (cutting out absolutely brain dead people) have the tendency to play closer to the vest aka playing their cards in their hand and less prone to making moves when there is more than one villain in the pot.

That's why I'm not so big on Hand 1 and much prefer hand 2.

In hand 1 UTG is still in the hand when the SB pops you. This is a sign of strength, real strength, no matter how you slice it.

Basically its a sign that this semi bluff against a TAG that you are trying to complete doesn't have much FE at all.

Hand 2 is significantly better because it's heads up and the guy is donking at you. It's got FE because he could be donking all sorts of stuff from the KQ draw himself to top pair, middle pair,etc. It's got a much greater chance of pushing him out.

[Jay Riall]

I lol'd at the poker book stuff, but your point about people playing much more straightforwards in multiway pots is very true.

[chisness]

Gators,

We aren't given much of a read but if he's a tougher player he might bluff here exactly because people like you are folding so many hands. Still, this is probably inappropriate vs. almost anyone at 400NL.