somewhat common spot NL CASH

[jakeduke]

I've played about 3 hands with villain. The last hand I PFR he called and led a moderately ragged flop for 14 (6 dollar pot). So I have my suspicions already. Here's the hand:

Effective stacks 80.

Villain PFR to 3, I 3-bet to 11 with TT (suits not important), villain calls.

FLOP: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (pot 21)

I bet 17, villain calls.

TURN: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (pot 56)

Villain has just over a PSB left. Push? C/C? C/F? Take your pick and tell me why.

[nairb09]

you're hand is too strong to c/f. You can't check to induce a bet from a weaker hand because you cant afford to give a free card if he checks behind. Just shove it in and expect to be behind or against a draw if he calls. Also, hands that you do beat that are calling the turn shove are not calling a river shove (draws, 9, underpair)

[Vinetou]

Shove because he only has a potsized bet left. However, I might be a little reckless against people who don't have much money on the table.

[ipp147]

Normally here I push and get called by like J3o or something.

But I push here because they normally have a huge flop range here and the pot is big so I like taking it down vs a 9/air/clubs (obv don't mind being called by them).

[olof86]

C/C, C/F, C/R depending on betsize. Pushing seems kinda bad imo.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

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C/C, C/F, C/R depending on betsize. Pushing seems kinda bad imo.

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I disagree here, I think that if you do decide to not fold this hand, shoving here is best. By checking, you just let hands that you have beat see a cheap/free showdown, but hands that have you beat are going to bet anyway, so your end result is that by checking you just lose value against hands you have beat and you still go broke against better hands. If you had a read that he was passive and would check down TP/weak kicker here, then maybe checking would make some sense, or if you had a weaker hand like 88 or something and thought he might check down a 9.

And since he did make a silly overbet on the previous hand you mentioned, checking here might be good to induce a bluff from a draw, or a misguided value bet from a lower pair, but I still am usually going to shove here when I decide to continue with this hand, I hate to let a draw check behind here and fold the river. You do end up seeing J3 or whatever sometimes, but you also see some crazy calls with who knows what, and a lot of times, donks are peeling that flop with any kind of gutshot at these limits.

[olof86]

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but you also see some crazy calls with who knows what

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Def. not true..you won't see many hands calling this push without having you crushed.
Also, if you are ahead on turn, you don't really mind giving him a freecard since he's probably drawing pretty thin.. and if he got some sorta multidraw he's prob committing himself by betting turn. Checking also allows you sometimes to get some value out of 9x, 88, 77, AK if a brick falls on the river.

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and a lot of times, donks are peeling that flop with any kind of gutshot at these limits.

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Wouldn't that statement make this more of a check then a bet? If villian is calling with any gutshot, 2overcards or whatever he most prob. got the plan to bet once he gets a chance to.

Don't forget that checking also allows us to get away from the hand from time to time.. it's not like this hand is a 100% stackoff.

[WutRUTryin2Hit]

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Def. not true..you won't see many hands calling this push without having you crushed.

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I disagree with this just based on the 100NL I have played on FTP HU. Maybe I just have really good game selection (I do try), but honestly I think a 9 calls you a ton here, and a variety of draws. If the read on this player was that he was a good player, I'd agree with you, but when the read is "led for $14 into a $6 pot on hand 1", I think you see more weird calls than you think. But may just be small sample size by me in the 100NL here.



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Wouldn't that statement make this more of a check then a bet? If villian is calling with any gutshot, 2overcards or whatever he most prob. got the plan to bet once he gets a chance to.

Don't forget that checking also allows us to get away from the hand from time to time.. it's not like this hand is a 100% stackoff.

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You're right here, and like I said, given that he did make the big overbet on the previous hand, checking to induce a bluff isn't bad. I do think the average bad player I ran into at this level was loose-passive though, and would not fall for a stackadonk line very often (I hope I am using that name correctly here), I have had terrible success using that line in lower stakes games.

But you're right in a lot of ways, and really when I look at the hand again, I think my advice more applies to if we had a bit LESS than a pot size bet left than a bit more. Maybe with these stacks there is a little room for pot control against a better hand. I just often see people in a spot like this where they do intend to show down the hand, but they check and let a worse hand get away cheap, but still stack off to a better one. My advice is based on the conceit that we HAVE decided to stack off here, but even so there may be more room for pot control than at first glance yeah.

[jay_shark]

I would shove against a player who is likely to call with inferior hands .I would check against players who will bet with more inferior hands than he would had he called your bet .

[Stealthy]

All depends if he will bet if checked to or not. If not just put it in yourself if he will then check and call a shove or check-raise shove. He has you beat here so rarely. I am never folding here.