Interesting Razz hand 30-60

[JackDuckSooted]

This is the typical 2+2 response [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] It seems 2+2 worships the b/f line and greatly overestimates the amount of people use it. Of course if he will bet a 98 and then fold to the check raise. I will ck raise bluff the river 1/4 of the time or so when my apparent good catches on board have paired or 2 paired me.

Posting question: if I want to respond to what somebody said how do I make that little bock of their text in my next post.

Thanks!

[Micturition Man]

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-EV here, since (1) he should never call 6th without the 98 made, and (2) he should know you know this, so (3) he should not be value betting 98.
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Yes but since I 'know' he has a 98 made why wouldn't I bet with my 97? I don't think that he would think I would be so timid I would check a 97 for fear that he improves his 98 to an 8.


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That's fair but you could definitely be checking a 97 fearing he will not pay you with a 98, or checking a 7 to go for a value check-raise.

The bottom line to me seems to be that if he thinks you're competent, he will know that you will never pay him off with worse than a 98, so he won't bet it.

[JackDuckSooted]

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The bottom line to me seems to be that if he thinks you're competent, he will know that you will never pay him off with worse than a 98, so he won't bet it.

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I agree with that logic, but there is another side to it. Since he knows I won't pay his 98 then after I check he will check and show down the 98. But what if he does bet? Now that bet should look suspicious to me. Sure he could have improved to an 8 but he could also be bluffing. Now maybe I get suspicious and call for pot odds with a T low or rough 98 if I have it.

[Micturition Man]

The question I find interesting that this thread sort of raises is how often we should bet 6th when the 3 paired us.

On the one hand we are in bad shape if our opponent is unpaired (~75/25).

But we have to call anyway so if we check and he bets we still lose the bet.

On the other hand there's a significant chance he paired the 4, even with one 4 in our hand. (Playing around with ProPokerTools I got 20%, not sure that's right.)

On the other hand if we check and he checks behind with a paired hand he would have folded, that gives him a shot at his 30% pot equity.

So betting gives us like 6% extra equity from the times he folds, but costs us 1/2 a bet from the times he would have checked behind with an unpaired hand.

NM I think I answered my own question... we should probably just bet every time.

[Micturition Man]

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The bottom line to me seems to be that if he thinks you're competent, he will know that you will never pay him off with worse than a 98, so he won't bet it.

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I agree with that logic, but there is another side to it. Since he knows I won't pay his 98 then after I check he will check and show down the 98. But what if he does bet? Now that bet should look suspicious to me. Sure he could have improved to an 8 but he could also be bluffing. Now maybe I get suspicious and call for pot odds with a T low or rough 98 if I have it.

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If we accept the premise that he should never call 6th without the 98 (which I think is correct), then on 7th his bluffs should be with unimproved 98's and his value bets should be with 8's.

The hands you should sometimes be check-raise bluffing are probably your own 98's (for example if you paired 5th or 6th but then caught an 8 on 7th... I don't think you should have any 98x hands on 3rd).

[Praxising]

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Posting question: if I want to respond to what somebody said how do I make that little bock of their text in my next post.

Thanks!

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At the top of the post it says Quote or Reply, click quote and the post will appear at the top of the reply screen. You can delete anything you don't want to address.