Thoughts Regarding the Maniac Rebuy Strategy

[Holdemphile]

I see another post regarding rebuys that hasn't gotten any replies yet, and thought of posting this there, but I wanted to focus the subject a bit, so here goes.

The maniac strategy during the rebuy period is a widely utilized tactic amongst a number of very successful tournament players. Now, I have no idea what their ROI is, but by successful, I mean they have won quite a bit of prize money, and I figure they are making a healthy profit, although I think we have only seen the results of one of the players posted on this board. I have only one big cash in a rebuy during which I played fairly conservative during the rebuy period but was able to accumulate a decent stack mostly from one player who was going all in very frequently and losing nearly every hand. Since then I have begun to toy with the maniac strategy during the rebuy period in the Stars $10(although I don't get to play it much), $5, and $3 rebuys. I decided to try this after I realized that alot of good players were employing the maniac strategy. Among them are Stealurmoney, who I watched a few times, as well as Johnster, and after his big win, Zeejustin in a couple of tourneys. I also learned that Daniel Negreanu employed the maniac strategy at the WSOP in the $1000 rebuy, supposedly rebuying something like 20+ times, and eventually winning. For those unfamiliar with these players, they have all accumulated huge numbers on the Poker Stars leader board, and I think they are all well respected players generally. I'm sure there are many others on this board who utilize some form of what I am referring to as the maniac strategy, but the above are the only ones I have noted and observed a bit.

For rebuy tourney novices, the maniac strategy appears quite foolish, and it is extremely common to see comments in the rebuys regarding what donks the maniacs are. These comments are generally from weak-tight players who blind down to nothing and are out soon after the first break. For any novices reading this, I will briefly describe what I believe to be the basic strategy.

The maniac strategy involves going all-in very frequently regardless of what cards you hold, or nearly regardless, and hoping to get lucky on a couple hands in a row to accumulate a large stack during the rebuy. Going all in every hand for a stretch and rebuying back to 3,000 chips after every loss, many, many times, is not unusual, nor is it worrisome to the player. Once a certain level of chips has been reached, the player then slows down and reverts to typical play, whatever that may be for the player.

It seems to me that a couple of different variations of this strategy can be identified. One is the pure maniac who is comfortable going all in every hand until he has a certain level of chips. I have seen Stealurmoney and Johnster employ this strategy, and I'm sure you can find Zeejustin doing the same, as well as many other excellent players. When I say every hand, I mean every hand. I think I've seen all ins with 23off from the 3,000 stack level. I don't know exactly at what level the maniac slows down, but it is somewhat higher than 10,000.

I think I've seen Zeejustin play something like a modified maniac strategy in which he will go all in a few hands, but then slow down slightly hoping to catch a better hand after the earlier "advertising" plays and get a caller expecting him to turn over two random cards.

I have tried to employ the latter strategy a bit recently and did play a couple tourneys where my wild table image carried over past the first break into the freezeout stage and allowed me to take a guy's stack where I think he would've folded against most other players (or maybe he didn't notice anything and was a complete donk).

Rebuy novices can't understand how this strategy works, since the maniac is often giving away more chips than he ends up with during the rebuy, essentially offering an overlay to the other players at the table. But it works for the following reasons: 1. the poor players at the table assume the maniac to be on two random cards even when he picks up monsters and pay him off, 2. wrongly assume that he is on two random cards after he has accumulated a large stack and has tightened up, and 3. The maniac is a much better player who doesn't mind dumping alot of chips around the table because he can frequently get many of them back after the first break when the rebuy period ends, prior to the table being broken up even if the other players recognize that he has tightened up his play. In short, the maniac is assuming tremendous implied odds from his maniac strategy.

Thus, the maniac's return on investment is dependent on how likely the other players are to give the chips back to him that he "donked" off to them while playing like a maniac. For this reason, I don't think the maniac strategy is a good one for average or below average players who should play a more typical strategy. The average player or beginner should play a typical aggressive, but not maniac, strategy during the rebuy, adjusting for how loose the rest of the table is.

I know this has been long, and a waste of time for rebuy veterans, but it would be nice if a few successful players could add their thoughts. I'm particularly interested in at what chip count you think the "maniac" should revert to tighter, more typical play. I've seen Stealurmoney get up to over 10k and still play the maniac strategy. I think the typical player slows down at around the 10k-12 mark, that's what I have tried to do recently although I have also taken a few chances at gigantic pots with less than premium hands when it looks like the whole table has decided to play an all in pot.

I would also be interested to know whether anyone has tracked their ROI when employing the maniac strategy versus a more typical, tight, aggressive strategy during the rebuy period, basically trying to pick off the maniacs by calling them down with a tighter range of hands than they are pushing.

Sorry this has been a bit rambling. Hopefully this has helped some rebuy novices, and maybe some experts can refine this essay.

Holdemphile

[pkrNinja]

hmmmm, I am a novice tourney player, and I love rebuys because of the maniacs giving chips away, but I can deffinitly see your point in this. Very interested to hear what the experienced MTT players will have to add to this.

Thanks for the good post

[ZBTHorton]

I'll add one comment.

I think the push any 2 till you have 20K strategy is -EV.

I think the push any 2 broadway/PP/good holding strategy and usually end up spending 51-91$ in the 11R's is +EV for a good player.

[metrognome7]

To tie my "Strategy Adjustments in Rebuy Tournaments" post into this one (and I thank you for putting it up, very helpful):

As a semi-novice, would you recommend that I play closer to my freezeout tournament strategy tonight - especially since this'll be my first rebuy tournament?

[Holdemphile]

Metronome,

I don't profess to be an expert on rebuys. I am certainly up in them since I won one (2nd actually I think in a 3 way split) but I am not an expert. That said, this is what I think a beginner should do. If your table is somewhat wild, with alot of all ins preflop, note the ranges that loose players are pushing and loosen up your calling range accordingly so that you are calling with a somewhat tighter range than they are pushing. For example, at an aggressive table, assume AQ=AK and that 10-10=Q-Q or something like that. You should gradually tighten up as your stack increases.

Good luck.

Holdemphile

[betgo]

Because this approach is used by certain strong pros like Daniel Negreanu doesn't mean it is genrerally a good approach. Like I am not going to follow his guidelines on starting hand selection.

It only works if you play much better than the rest of the table.

I follow an approach of push AK and JJ or better. It works pretty well against peopel playing push broadway cards and pps. My range plays well against those hands. All I have to do is initial rebuy and double up once in the rebuy period and I have a reasonable stack

[nath]

I play the maniac strategy although I don't push any two. I usually only push hands with some potential of winning a pot. I also tighten up gradually as I get a bigger stack, but I don't start playing normally until I reach 15-20k.
I've won two rebuys in the last 3 months. I'm pretty sure I had accumulated a large stack in both of those wins (the second time I had 48k at the break!).
The strange thing is, I'm NOT good enough to get the chips back in the second hour, as I've frequently learned. The second hour is a minefield for me: I invariably donk off 5k-10k in chips somehow, probably because I no longer have FE at my table and every so often I try to make a move that doesn't work. (In fact, I once sat out the entire second hour while I changed locations, figuring that losing 2k in blinds was better than I normally perform.)

If I could play better in the 2nd hour, this would be even better. But I still have lots of holes in my poker game. Figuring out what loose donks are calling my preflop and continuation bets with is a big one.

[GT123]

I used to play rebuys more often, I used the modified maniac strategy. But it all depends on how loose the players at the table are. At a table where there are at least 2 other players willing to go all in with me, then if I think I have 2 live cards, I would go all in along with them, hoping to triple, quadruple up. I would do this until I have 10k or more chips, then I would start targeting the players with low chip stacks and gamble with them more. Against bigger stacks, I would wait for a big hand, hoping my loose image will allow me to double my big stack again.

[Holdemphile]

Nath,

Do you play on Stars, and if so what is your screen name?

Holdemphile

[tagteam]

The rebuy tourney is not a sprint, it is a marathon. It takes almost 4 hours to get to the bubble. At that point blinds are 2000/4000 and 200 antes. The maniac strategy will work only for someone who is a good player to begin with. A weak player who gets lucky in the first hour and accumulates 40K in chips is no more likely to make the money than a solid player who slowly increases his stack round by round. Near the bubble, a 40K stack can be lost in one or two hands.

I loosen up in the rebuy period somewhat, but I still want to win showdowns against a maniac, so I loosen up on the gap principle. But, I prefer to take advantage of the maniacs since on average I will go in with a better starting hand once I have identified who the maniacs are.

Being observant at the table, you can see the subtle ajustment the quality players make when throttling back on the maniac style. Plus, I look up the players (in real time) to see who is a "good player" maniac and a "donk" maniac.