obvious fold on A high board, right?

[Louis88]

You guys are starting to make me feel like Charlie Brown. Wishy-washy! I guess that's why I joined here, great discussion!

[gobbledygeek]

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With a raiser, a 3bettor and a 3coldcaller I think there is a pretty damn good chance someone has an A so I think I check the flop as well as played. But closing the action and getting 16:1 I think this is an easy call. I only have to make up 6SB = 3BB which should be very easy to do if I hit a K on the turn.

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It's only "very easy" if he has AK or if he has AA and you river quads.

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I don't think we need big action to make up 3BB. Any Ace is probably going to be calling us down in this pot on our turn checkraise and it looks like at least one villain has one. I'm calling this flop with any pocket pair.

[TheCount212]

Ditto. UTG's lead out could simply be a continuation bet with, say, QQ or JJ. Given all the interest PF, the holder of AA would have to be very tempted to check the flop here. Let's see another card, and if we like it we can raise UTG and see how much he still likes his hand.

[Xhad]

Checking AA on this flop takes a special kind of bad player, one who tries to be tricky but doesn't actually think through the EV implications of what he is doing. It's certainly not the standard play and not one you should expect from an unknown before even seeing him act.

[TheCount212]

actually in HFAP Sklansky says the exact opposite..

[Xhad]

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actually in HFAP Sklansky says the exact opposite..

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citation? I have that book somewhere around here and remember nothing of the sort.

[Dhani]

Thanks, for that response. My ego is bruised from the flawed part, but you are correct. Thanks

[DJTiesto]

I disagree with every response so far.

1.First of all, YES, you should have capped it there is only one hand out there that beats you and that is pocket aces. I wouldn't even worry about that preflop.

2.There are now 15 Small bets in the pot, although there should've been at least 19 if you capped it the round before. You know have 3 options: check,fold, or raise.

4. Checking you are hoping to win your 22.5 draw if you hit the king on the turn which will probably win you three extra big bets equating to 25 or 21 since you didn't cap. (see how not capping makes this call unprofitable now).

5. Folding you win nothing and give up the pot for the chance that one out of these 3 people have an ace, sure it might be safe to assume one of them do but there is a chance none of them have one.

6. Raising gives you options, first it signifies a strong hand so unless somebody has two pair or better they more than likely will reraise you and you will know where you stand. Also it improves your pot odds because the pot is now 19 sb considering your raise forces at least one person to fold (23 sb if capped making this play worth it for the draw). Now if someone raises you easily assume someone has an ace with a high kicker or better, you should call the additional raise and fold the flop if a king doesn't come.

Now assuming you weren't reraised, with two other opponents the turn offers 11.5 BB. Unfortunately since you are in the small blind you are first to act which means your in a bad spot if a king doesn't come. You should probably check because the raise the last round might have bought you a free card. If someone bets you should probably fold because they more than likely have an ace or better at this point and you are only getting 13.5 BB for your draw. If no one bets and you miss your king on the river you can now probably value bet on the river if think your kings are good and a couple blanks came up.

Quick review:
Should've capped preflop to make seeing the turn profitable.
A raise might buy you a free card. The odds of catching a king on the turn or river is about 10.9 to one from the flop as compared to just each one. So your raise is better than calling because it improves your odds. Also it gives you the chance to win it outright because your opponents might not have the ace so you'll make them pay to draw two pair or better on you.

This is just my thought i hope someone might understand this despite its length.

[HoneyBadger]

I would rate raising the flop as "simply ridiculous". Peeling is fine/good, raising is spew imo.

[KitCloudkicker]

lol "knowing where you stand"

i can tell where you stand for free. you're behind.

also lol at buying a free card. its more likely you'll get 3 bet on the flop.