A8s in Family Pot from SB

CSguy · #1 08-31-2007, 01:55 AM

Here's a hand I'm flustered by. MP2 is 26/12 after 65 hands. Don't remember any other reads.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

>> I think I raise here like 50% of the time. A9s is a no-brainer raise for me. A7s is less likely, but possible.

>> Raising here would make playing an Ace on the flop easier. We'd also be raising for value I think (did I use that phrase right?).

>> As it is, I was thinking of getting in cheap and leaving cheap if I missed the flop.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

>> I check raise here I think to clear backdoor straight draws. I also want the option to 3bet to see if the original better really likes his/her hand. However, with the preflop action, I don't have anyone to count on for a bet. Having this check through would suck. Lead out here instead?

Turn: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

>> Bet-raise here? I think I was playing scared at the moment after discussing my QQQ vs KKK hand earlier [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I did think that MP1 would call 1 though and thought the overcall would be better than another bet from MP2. Calling his/her raise might get me more action on the river.

>> On the other hand, maybe we want to force 2 bets on MP1 in case he/she's on a draw.

>> BTW, I have a feeling here that MP2 has an ace. At the time, I'm trying to calculate how many aces beat me and how many I beat. (AA,AK,AQ,AJ,AT,A9,A7,A6 vs A5,A4,A4,A2) Not looking good for me. If I discount AA,AK,AQ,AJ since Villain didn't raise preflow, I'm 50-50.

River: (13.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

>> A flush made it, but I doubt that. I need to see a show down but would hate to get raised. So I check call.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Thoughts on all streets?

Thanks so much.

- Jason

Point Blank · #2 08-31-2007, 01:56 AM

CS ... why do you only include vpip/pfr in your posts?

kerowo · #3 08-31-2007, 02:03 AM

Your calculation on the turn is wrong. If he has an ace he is beating you way more than you are beating him. 26/12 doesn't play weak aces from mp unless they're suited. When he raises you on the turn he is telling you he has an ace, which means you are most likely drawing to 3 outs. I'd be more worried about the straight draws that got there on the river than the flush, but he isn't playing a draw like this unless he is a large bluffer.

CSguy · #4 08-31-2007, 02:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
CS ... why do you only include vpip/pfr in your posts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm too lazy to look up the post-flop AF (that's what you're looking for no?). When I click on the E (summation) thingy in PokerTracker's playback screen, it doesn't show me PFA. I can lookup the dude by username though. Total AF is 2.58.

tyler_cracker · #5 08-31-2007, 02:28 AM

tl;dr but i play the hand the same.

note that on the turn we often have 6 chopping outs if behind which makes that call easier.

kerowo · #6 08-31-2007, 02:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr but i play the hand the same.

note that on the turn we often have 6 chopping outs if behind which makes that call easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think we are ahead on the turn? Only way we chop is if he has A8. Or am I missing something?

tyler_cracker · #7 08-31-2007, 02:36 AM

if the board pairs, we will have a full house and chop with A9-AK (as well as A2-A6).

CSguy · #8 08-31-2007, 02:43 AM

Good point on the chop outs.

And as a side note, I'm reading the updated FAQ and realize that I posted 3 hands today which is a bit of a no-no. I'll be commenting for the next few.

Also, anyone else playing Omaha? Much softer, but even there I'm seeing good players where I'd never see 'em before. I need to get the Omaha version of PT.

kerowo · #9 08-31-2007, 09:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if the board pairs, we will have a full house and chop with A9-AK (as well as A2-A6).

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! We have trips don't we, that didn't sink in last night and I was thinking kicker still played.

CSguy · #10 08-31-2007, 11:48 AM

MP2 shows A2o. My 8 kicker is good and I rake the pot.

Thanks, guys.