General Question - Vulnerable Hand w/Many Callers

Rambino · #1 03-10-2006, 01:24 PM

Common situation on .50/1:

I'm on the button with ATo/KTs (or similar hand). 5-6 limpers, I raise, all call.

The flop is T-8-5 with two flush cards, but I have no flush draw. Top pair, good kicker, and 6 players who all have a draw of some kind.

check to me.

How do I play this situation? I have no real way to protect my vulnerable hand against all the flush draws, overcards, and gutshots out there, and everybody has pot odds to draw anyway.

Maybe I don't raise preflop, but I don't know that it plays very different.

Thought? Opinions?

tehox · #2 03-10-2006, 01:40 PM

bet for value. a lot of time there is nothing you can do to protect your hand.

In general I think raising with big unsuited cards after a lot of limpers is bad (except AK and maybe AQ).

swong4444 · #3 03-10-2006, 01:42 PM

KTs is a raise preflop with 5-6 limpers. You have a hand that plays well multiway and an equity edge over the limpers (plus, great position). I'd probably call with ATo, because I don't want to fold it (probably better than the limpers hands), but don't really want to raise it either. There is a good thread on this specific hand (see limpers and the button).

On the flop, you have to bet. Even if your opponents have odds to call with some draws, giving free cards (when your hand is probably best) is even better odds.

dseiler116 · #4 03-10-2006, 01:45 PM

I definitely would have limped in with that many people in the pot behind me. You've already got good odds based on how much is in the pot, approximately 5-1 BBs.

No strength from anyone post flop (or pre flop, for that matter) I say bet hard and push them off the draws.

bozlax · #5 03-10-2006, 01:52 PM

The mistake here is in raising preflop. You're not going to thin the field enough to make it worth it, and your equity with these two specific hands isn't high enough to warrant a raise for value, and will change significantly on the flop.

Whether it's raised or not, you're betting this flop for value. If it's not raised you might get some protection as a bonus, if one of your Villans weakly folds a draw, but mostly it's for value. If it's raised behind you, I'd likely 3-bet and then keep an eye open for completed draws on the turn, or smooth-call and donkbet a safe turn (a good spot for mixing up your play).

Fantam · #6 03-10-2006, 01:59 PM

Dont raise preflop with these hands with so many limpers.

ATo starting hand strength weakens as the number of limpers increase.

KTs plays well in a multiway pot, when you have a flush or straight draw on the flop. However its really a speculative hand with a lot of limpers.

You were probably checked to on the flop, because you raised preflop.

Although it will still be correct for draws to call, you should bet the flop so that you dont give those draws infinite odds with a free card.

If you were checked to on an unraised flop, you should also bet, as you probably have the best hand at that stage and again want to charge hands that are drawing.

Aaron W. · #7 03-10-2006, 02:08 PM

Raising or limping KTs are both good options. Limping ATo is much better than raising it.

As for the flop play, you've got to bet your hand. How can you win money if you don't get bets into the pot?

Andy Ross · #8 03-10-2006, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The mistake here is in raising preflop. You're not going to thin the field enough to make it worth it, and your equity with these two specific hands isn't high enough...

[/ QUOTE ]

With KTs on button, and with 5-6 limpers? This is an automatic raise for me, and I'm not doing it to thin the field. We've got a very nice multiway hand here, and I'm out to build a big pot with position.

[ QUOTE ]
donkbet a safe turn (a good spot for mixing up your play).

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is on the button.