Oh yeah baby, give it to me deep and multiway and make it extra hard

[pepper123]

$1.00/$2.00 Hold 'em with unlimited betting allowed

SB has $350. He seems decent but definitely on the loose side of aggro. We've been playing on 2 table together for over an hour. I've 3 bet him a few times, he's 3 bet me a few times. We've only tangled once post flop and that was a few minutes ago. I called his UTG raise on the button, raised his CB on a dry flop and folded to a shove.

BB has $200. He is terrible. He's check/called with ace high against me a couple times and fired pot when he rivered 2nd pair (pretty obviously for value). About 30 minutes ago on another table he played this hand:

Fishy CO opens. Villain calls in BB with 99. They are 200bb deep. Flop is 822. CO bets 12, Villain makes it 70. CO calls with QTo (no pair, no draw). Turn is a queen, villain shoves for 2x pot (another 150BB) and CO calls with QTo. So... uh... villain here obviously over values hands.


On to the hand.

5 handed
UTG/Hero ($320) raises to $7 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Folds to SB (LAG, $350) who calls
BB (horrible fish, $200) calls

Pot: $21
Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB bets $16
BB calls $16

Pot is $53 and it's $16 to me. I have $313 behind, fishy BB has $177 and LAG SB covers.

My play?

[rapidacid]

Flat call. SB possibly setting up B3B line. I think we'll have a lot better idea of our equity on the turn.

[bighead9]

raise to tax weaker kings and flush draws. If neither opponent has a king, you are probably not going to win more money by just calling and hoping for further action on later streets. also, just calling to control pot size is not that valuable here because i think there are enough 2nd best hands that will call your raise. I also think by raising right away, you can get away from the hand on the next street if one of your opponents makes a big bet into you, something they would be unlikely to do with a flush draw or KQ (although there is a good chance they call your flop raise with either of these hands).

[ttgirl]

i would raise and get it in vs the bb but not the sb, but not raising with tptk when bb is in the pot is just incinerating money.

[Spy Dog]

Just call.

By calling the flop you will get a much more honest response on the turn from both SB and BB. The pot will be large and bluff frequencies tend to go way down in larger multiway pots.

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
Flat call. SB possibly setting up B3B line. I think we'll have a lot better idea of our equity on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about exactly what hands try to 3bet-shove here.

Now think about how we do vs that range.

There are 2 hands that beat us, and like 4 million combos that he'll do this with in addition.

This is a super easy raise/call.

[BombayBadboy]

[ QUOTE ]
i would raise and get it in vs the bb but not the sb, but not raising with tptk when bb is in the pot is just incinerating money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a good point. He will call with most kings. From teh LAG his perspective leading here is safe if he has a king so he can gauge the reaction of the callingstation first, and start valuebetting right away. That way he doesn't risk you checking behind (which you should do often because of two players being in the pot, one of them being a station). Its not a bet-3bet line he is taking here most of teh time.

[rapidacid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flat call. SB possibly setting up B3B line. I think we'll have a lot better idea of our equity on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about exactly what hands try to 3bet-shove here.

Now think about how we do vs that range.

There are 2 hands that beat us, and like 4 million combos that he'll do this with in addition.

This is a super easy raise/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Board: Kc 5s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.711% 44.28% 00.43% 7917779 76257.50 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 45.984% 45.75% 00.24% 8179344 42230.50 { 55, 22, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, KQo }
Hand 2: 09.306% 09.10% 00.21% 1626210 37579.00 { random }

I'm easily swayed. $54?

[0evg0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flat call. SB possibly setting up B3B line. I think we'll have a lot better idea of our equity on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about exactly what hands try to 3bet-shove here.

Now think about how we do vs that range.

There are 2 hands that beat us, and like 4 million combos that he'll do this with in addition.

This is a super easy raise/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Board: Kc 5s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.711% 44.28% 00.43% 7917779 76257.50 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 45.984% 45.75% 00.24% 8179344 42230.50 { 55, 22, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, KQo }
Hand 2: 09.306% 09.10% 00.21% 1626210 37579.00 { random }

I'm easily swayed. $54?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's 3betting some of that range preflop.

And $54 is terrible. Look at stacks. We want him to 3bet shove and we're $313 deep, learn to set up stacks.

Raise the $16 to $81.

[pepper123]

[ QUOTE ]
Board: Kc 5s 2c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.711% 44.28% 00.43% 7917779 76257.50 { AhKs }
Hand 1: 45.984% 45.75% 00.24% 8179344 42230.50 { 55, 22, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, KcQc, KcJc, KcTc, QcJc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, KQo }
Hand 2: 09.306% 09.10% 00.21% 1626210 37579.00 { random }

I'm easily swayed. $54?

[/ QUOTE ]

Remove some of the suited broadways that get 3balled pf but you can add in some 5xcc hands.


and 0evg0 is right, $54 is a really bad size to raise to. I'd rather flat call.

ALSO. we can assume that if we raise and get 3b shoved on that BB will be coming a long a good portion of the time and we will have him crush almost always. This gives us a pretty good overlay.