which poker pro is the most educated ?

[PocketZeros]

You can't take a mathematician and an engineer and compare how good they are at math.

There are two different kinds of math that you experience in your education: learning about math (from courses in the mathematics department) and using math (from courses in the physics or engineering departments). Mathematicians are obviously better at proving theorums and creating or improving existing theorums. Engineers, on the other hand, are almost by definition going to be better at taking existing mathematical theorums and applying them to real world problems. The two skill sets are pretty different and its rare that you'll find someone who is exceptional at both. I belong to the latter category, and I'm telling you, I couldn't prove my way out of a house with no walls.

[Rookcifer]

It seems the conversation is on college degrees here, but what really matters is the "g" factor (generalized intelligence factor or IQ). A PhD in history, for example, will not help you at the table, nor will an M.D. What these degrees do tell us is that these individuals are smarter than the average bear. However, one doesn't have to hold an advanced degree in order to be as intelligent as those that do.

The best way to judge IQ for most people is to look at one's SAT scores (if the test was taken pre-1995). Someone who scores a perfect 1600 has an IQ of at least 160-165 (4 standard deviations above normal). The general rule is that you can take off the last digit of your SAT score and the remaining three digits represent roughly your IQ (thus 1350 correlates roughly to a 135 IQ). This isn't exact, but it is rather close, especially if one took the test prior to 1995 (the newer versions are no longer closely correlated to IQ because of political correctness. The new SAT is no longer considered a valid psychomaetric instrument. Mensa, for example, does not accept new SAT scores, but does accept old ones. I think you must have around a 1350 for entry into Mensa.)

So, the question for me is not which poker players have the most advanced degrees from Ivy League schools but rather who are the most intelligent players (IQ wise). Clearly Jesus and Varkonyi are up there due to the intelligence it takes for their degrees, but there are others who don't have advanced degrees that are up there with them. For example, David Sklansky doesn't hold any graduate degrees (I don't think) but he claims his SAT scores were near perfect. This would make him one of the more intelligent well-known players. Love him or hate him but Dutch Boyd is one of the more gifted (IQ wise) of all players. If he claims his IQ is 150, I would think this is true, if not a bit of an underestimation. Anyone who enters college at 14 or whatever is definitely in the "gifted" league. Approximately 1 out of 1,000 people have an IQ of 150 or better.

Binder has a PhD from Stanford and is a specialist in Quantum Field Theory. I don't know how many of you are aware of the mathematics involved in quantum theory, but those guys routinely apply the most advanced topologies, differentials etc. on a daily basis. Their work is theoretical mostly. Whoever said that engineers have a better understanding of more complex math than pure mathematicians and physicists are completely mistaken. Engineering math is nowhere near as advanced as one would find in a graduate course in General Relativity (Tensor calculus). It is true though that the specialties are different and they utilize different branches within mathematics.

I would say that if one were to construct a Gaussian curve and put all of the pro poker players on it scattered by IQ, you would find those with the higher number of bracelets and higher career earnings (either in tourneys or cash games) to be at the right tail of the curve; that is above the average.

A good example of a great poker intellect that is not known for his advanced degrees would be Harrington. Just from my observations of him and the fact that he is a former state chess champion (and a backgammon champ) tells me he is up there with some of the others in general intelligence.

So my list of smartest players would be (in no particular order)

Jesus
Cunningham
Boyd
Varkonyi (MIT)
Sklansky
Greenstein
Binder (Quantum Theorist)
Phil Gordon (he also entered college at a young age and has a degree in CS)
Hellmuth (despite his antics, I think he is probably a pretty bright guy)
Stu Unger (yeah he's dead, but he had a genius level IQ)
Harrington
Lindgren (this one is a hunch but I just get the vibe he is very smart).
Andy Bloch (MIT 'nuff said)
Miller (also an MIT kid and seems to be very bright based on his writings).
Jon Juanda

I know I left the ladies out, but that was not intentional. There just aren't enough women in the spotlight to make a comparison, but I would say Annie Duke would be right up there.

I am sure I am missing others. I would put Negraneau (sp) here but I am still out on him. Sometimes I think he is very bright but other times I just don't know if it is just his personality that makes him "appear" smart.

At any rate, sorry if I digressed, but this is an interesting thread.

[otter]

can I meet this Harvard gal? She seems nice

[KingGeedorah]

lol this entire thread has existed without the [censored] master?

BRANDON [censored] ADAMS

[6471849653]

Why did he got two higher educations and how are they related. And why did he stop the latter just six months away and before he was anything at poker. What was his motivation all life before that.

[HLS2k6]

I have a law degree from Harvard, and am of the opinion that a Phd in a difficult field (like a discipline of theoretical mathematics or physics) from a good school is a far more impressive accomplishment in terms of the effort, creativity, and discipline required. Such degrees very often require a significant, new contribution to an academic field, something law school in no way demands.

As to people dismissing Bloch's education as nothing but professional school, however, a legal education at the top few schools is anything but a professional education. I'd also add that getting a degree from some of the top law and medical schools is quite notable, if for no other reason, just because of the sheer selectivity of it. IIRC, Yale's law school, for example, was recently identified as the most selective widely applied to academic program in the world. Many of the top Phd programs are much less selective and the subject of much less demand (although the job hunt for Phd grads in certain fields is as selective as it gets).

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what about juanda? wasnt he a doctor before?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he used to sell bibles door to door

[bustedromo]

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus
Cunningham
Boyd
Varkonyi (MIT)
Sklansky
Greenstein
Binder (Quantum Theorist)
Phil Gordon (he also entered college at a young age and has a degree in CS)
Hellmuth (despite his antics, I think he is probably a pretty bright guy)
Stu Unger (yeah he's dead, but he had a genius level IQ)
Harrington
Lindgren (this one is a hunch but I just get the vibe he is very smart).
Andy Bloch (MIT 'nuff said)
Miller (also an MIT kid and seems to be very bright based on his writings).
Jon Juanda

[/ QUOTE ]

Raw intelligence-wise, Stuey smokes them all.

[RunyonAve]

Michael Binger

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jesus
Cunningham
Boyd
Varkonyi (MIT)
Sklansky
Greenstein
Binder (Quantum Theorist)
Phil Gordon (he also entered college at a young age and has a degree in CS)
Hellmuth (despite his antics, I think he is probably a pretty bright guy)
Stu Unger (yeah he's dead, but he had a genius level IQ)
Harrington
Lindgren (this one is a hunch but I just get the vibe he is very smart).
Andy Bloch (MIT 'nuff said)
Miller (also an MIT kid and seems to be very bright based on his writings).
Jon Juanda

[/ QUOTE ]

Raw intelligence-wise, Stuey smokes them all.

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys are all smart. In terms of formal education, Boyd got a law dgree at a very young age, Sklansky dropped out of Pennsilvania, Helmuth dropped out of Wisconsin, and Harrington has a law degree.