FTP Daily double early

[fingersmith]

Full Tilt Poker Game #3394548911: Daily Double - B (25425934), Table 49 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:44:47 ET - 2007/08/28
Seat 1: crewsmissle (5,865)
Seat 2: sniperpro (2,990)
Seat 3: ChewBubblegum (2,010)
Seat 4: shev24 (1,190)
Seat 5: Ozzy55 (3,005)
Seat 6: Hero (3,395)
Seat 7: ikemare (2,610)
Seat 8: ICPoker (2,740)
Seat 9: skiking08 (2,910)
ikemare posts the small blind of 30
ICPoker posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kc Jc]
skiking08 folds
crewsmissle calls 60
sniperpro raises to 240
ChewBubblegum folds
shev24 folds
Ozzy55 folds
Hero calls 240
ikemare folds
ICPoker folds
crewsmissle has 15 seconds left to act
crewsmissle calls 180
*** FLOP *** [9c 9s 3c]
crewsmissle checks
sniperpro checks
Hero bets 550
crewsmissle calls 550
sniperpro folds
*** TURN *** [9c 9s 3c] [4h] ---- about 1950 in pot
crewsmissle has 15 seconds left to act
crewsmissle bets 880
Hero???
(have about 2600 behind at this point)

[4CardStraight]

Fold preflop.
Check behind on the flop.
Fold the turn.

So no, I pretty much disagree with every decision so far in the hand.

[xxGreat1xx]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.
Check behind on the flop.
Fold the turn.

So no, I pretty much disagree with every decision so far in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

[fingersmith]

thanks for input... i'm pretty new to mtt's and am used to playing 6max cash. Care to explain reasoning behind stuff? assume I'm taking an "accumulate chips early"/ risk taking LAG approach rather than a "survival" TAG approach

[4CardStraight]

Well... Suited cards need about 20 to 1 implied odds since they will make a flush about 5% of the time. We are putting in too many chips to get 20 to 1 implied odds here. The fact that we can make the nut straight also helps, perhaps with position I might call getting something like 15 to 1 implied, but here, I am not getting quite that, and I would like to have a read that my opponent might be willing to stack off with top pair.

Thus we are relying mainly on card strength, and our position. These cards are easily dominated. AK,KQ,AJ,AA,KK,JJ all badly dominate us. Thus we face "reverse implied odds" since we can make top pair and spend a good chunk of our stack before we figure that out.

This is not a flop I bet behind. We are looking to pop a flush and the free card is the best bet. If we had a nine, we would not bet this much, we would bet third pot. I cant bet third pot into the field very effectively. Any of those hands that dominate me are likely check calling the flop quite possibly with overpairs or AK that thinks I whiffed. Since my hand is unlikely to win with a bet, and I have nothing but king high, I will peel a free card to see if I can make a top pair or flush.

I fold because I was shown strength preflop, shown strength on the flop, and shown strength on the turn. My hand doesnt have outs to continue, and I could even be drawing dead to just a nut flush draw.

4Card

[fingersmith]

good comments. I understand RIO and I am not playing KJ for top pair value here. I now see that I didn't really have the implied odds to call preflop, but I think it's reasonably close.

One thing to notice, in terms of "strength preflop, on the flop, and on the turn," is that the preflop raiser check/folded, and the check/caller on the flop limp/called pre. So the only real show of strength comes on the turn.

As for checking behind on the flop, I see your reasoning. But I bet because I have decent equity now, yet I'm holding only kig high, so basically no immediate showdown value. I actually disagree that we are unlikely to take it down on the flop with a bet; i think we will a large % of the time, hence my semi bluff.

I appreciate your extended comments. if you have any comments on my thought process, all the better.

[BarryLyndon]

Fold PF. Hell, I'm not a big fan of playing this hand readless in 6-max.

I don't know about checking behind on the flop, 4-card. Why am I getting involved with KcJc if I'm not betting this flop against a limp caller and a raiser after they both check on a really dry board where I get AK/KQ/AJ to fold, effectively eliminating all hands that involve reverse implied odds if a K or J hits? At the same time, I have good implied odds if 77/88/1010 is playing this hand remarkably weird. And 66/55 may fold. Also, lesser flush draws may be hanging around at this level, since these players suck, and if a club hits, we still get paid off because so many hands don't suspect that he are semi-bluffing with the flush. The same can be said for a J.

Being that we have Kc and Jc, there really raen't that many plausible combinations of Acxc that is playing the hand that way, so we don't have to worry too much about being crushed by a higher flush draw.

Anyway, I don't get involved with this kind of crap hand anyway, and it's unfortunate that Cruiser called you. As played, I fold the turn because you are now effectively scrweed. If Cruiser checked again, I probably check behind, as he is making a mistake and I'm now getting a good, cheap river. Plus, I get value on the river if a K or J hits.

Barry