FOLD TT in the BB after Buttons All in & SB All in Call....???

[HardGrind]

This was originally posted in the Beginners forum but I thought It would be more appropriate in this forum as it relates to MTT. Thanks for taking the time to analyze the hand.

Early stage of a tournament. Few hands prior I doubled up with my KK vs QQ so I felt that it wasnt necessary to push the limit so soon and risk my tourney life especially after the Button goes ALL IN for his remaining 900+ stack AND the SB Call. For some reason I just felt like it was a typical FULL tilt set up were everyone has a high PP. I was very disappointed to see that they had very marginal hands in addition to them holding eachothers outs!!!!!

I would have been able to knock out both of them & take a considerable chip lead early in the tournament that would have definitely propelled me into the middle stages & improve my chances of making the FT.

From all the articles and books I read, its recommended NOT to call an all in raise & a call thereafter with numbered PP....What would a pro do in this situation?????


Sorry I cant convert the hand history


Full Tilt Poker Game #3377218646: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (25827081), Table 5 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:35:51 ET - 2007/08/27
Seat 1: poopytripz71 (4,775)
Seat 2: IamtheDog1 (530)
Seat 3: BigPhatMike (2,345)
Seat 4: fulte21 (1,755)
Seat 6: SCdahlbball (920)
Seat 7: djphaze22 (1,700)
Seat 8: chaarlie (2,065)
Seat 9: HardGrind (2,725)
chaarlie posts the small blind of 25
HardGrind posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HardGrind [Td Tc]
poopytripz71 folds
IamtheDog1 folds
BigPhatMike folds
fulte21 folds
SCdahlbball raises to 920, and is all in
djphaze22 folds
chaarlie calls 895
poopytripz71: same herer
HardGrind folds
SCdahlbball shows [Ac 3c]
chaarlie shows [Qh Ad]
*** FLOP *** [9d Kh 3d]
*** TURN *** [9d Kh 3d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [9d Kh 3d 2s] [8d]
SCdahlbball shows a pair of Threes
chaarlie shows Ace King high
SCdahlbball wins the pot (1,890) with a pair of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,890 | Rake 0
Board: [9d Kh 3d 2s 8d]
Seat 1: poopytripz71 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: IamtheDog1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: BigPhatMike didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: fulte21 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: SCdahlbball showed [Ac 3c] and won (1,890) with a pair of Threes
Seat 7: djphaze22 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: chaarlie (small blind) showed [Qh Ad] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 9: HardGrind (big blind) folded before the Flop


Footnote:

I managed to claw uphill & made it to the final table. However, I was forced to play short stack poker for about 25 hands & got knocked out in 5th place,..at least it I fought my way into the money, although it was only 16 bucks.

[hamnegger]

the position of the raise is important as is the huge overbet. this guy does not want a call. so lets think about the caller he knows this shove is weak . he could have a hand we dominate or 2 overs im shovin it in here 100% of the time. this is a good time to win a juicy pot

[usha]

hamnegger, I really doubt that if SB is a good player he's calling here with a pp lower than ours. I would expect him to iso shove us, no?

[Pokerfarian]

You'd expect him to isoshove AQ as well, but he didn't...a lot of players just don't

[Tackleberry]

This is a tough spot and by far not so easy as it maybe seem.

First - what do we expect from SB here? I agree with usha that a reasonable player should have iso-shoved here - even with AA. Which hand would make sense to call but not shove here? I don´t know ... so let´s assume, SB is a donk. Let´s further assume a somewhat loose calling-range of 77+,AQs+,KQs,AKo.

In this case we are a 36%-dog (and it naturally gets even worse if Villains calling-range should be tighter as well as if ORs pushing range is tighter):

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.133% 22.52% 00.62% 12723441 350038.50 { QQ-55, A2s+, K4s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 1: 40.345% 38.32% 02.03% 21654867 1145679.00 { 77+, AQs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 2: 36.521% 34.55% 01.97% 19524520 1114783.50 { TT }

We are getting 2:1 odds while being a 1.7:1 dog. That is not a huge overlay. If any overcard comes on the flop and Villain pushes we have a hard decision (if we calc with our whole stack right from the start we´re getting only 1.4:1 preflop!!). So I would just fold this ...

[cheburashka]

I don't want to be a jerk, but this took me less than a minute in Microsoft Word. I don't know how to use the hand converter, but it's not a real barrier. Plus it helps you avoid mistakes, to wit who made the first all-in bet.

UTG: (4,775)
UTG+1: (530)
MP1: (2,345)
MP2: (1,755)
CO: (920)
BU: (1,700)
SB (2,065)
Hero: (2,725)

Blinds 25/50, Hero is in BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

4 folds, CO raises 870 to 920 and is all in, one fold, SB calls 895, Hero?

[usha]

[ QUOTE ]

You'd expect him to isoshove AQ as well, but he didn't...a lot of players just don't


[/ QUOTE ]

Without a read on villain that he's bad or very laggy, its a fold. Don't be results oriented. OP, you should really avoid showing results as it affects the quality of the hand discussion.

[Gesangsverein]

I just fold this one...We are in no need to make a move or risk our chips. The problem is, that the call from the SB might easyly mean a high pocket pair. So a push seems to be a bad move imho.
Apart from that (if you just call): What will you do on a 257 flop if SB starts beting ?!
A call here might result in very tough decision-making postflop. And your aim should be to play in a way that make further decision-making easy.