pictures of girls in threads

[El Diablo]

Jim,

"I am a big fan of having a second account for posting 'in the gray areas'. People can even know that our mod account and the second account are the same person. I think our mod account 'is an official representative of 2+2' and should follow the highest standards."

I disagree completely.

First off, if 2+2 considers mods to be "official reps" then the admins should say so.

And if you think mods should be held to a certain level of conduct, then imo mods should most definitely not be violating that code of conduct with a second account.

[El Diablo]

Mike,

"Ask her if you may."

I think you're making little sense here with the rationale behind your actions here.

Why are you singling out nation?

Pictures of people that could be considered embarrassing or associated with what could be considered embarrassing situations are posted on 2+2 all the time.

Do you think 2+2 policy should be to not allow that?

If so, time for you to do some massive cleaning house on BBV, BBV4L, OOT, etc.

Are you going to ask every poster like that the question you asked nation? And what if they say "yes, it's OK with that person"? Do you just accept that? Or do you need some confirmation from the pictured person.

And once you ban pictures, what about trip reports about embarrassing situations? And who gets to be morality police to determine what's embarrassing or not?

I really think 2+2 should either be completely hands-off on stuff like this (unless takedown requests are received for libelous (slanderous? whatever is right) or copyright violating matter) or should have a complete zero-tolerance policy about any threads of this nature. But deleting the pics based on the reasons you gave seems like a really, really bad decision to me.

[Mike Haven]

I must have missed the previous graphic posts about the sexual exploits of posters which also contained clear real life photographs of other allegedly involved parties, unbeknownst to those parties, and where those parties have no recourse to giving their version of events so I must be working with incomplete information, not knowing what has become acceptable on Twoplustwo in some of the forums I admit I read rarely.

Having said that, I still think there's "the line" we each have in our own minds, and, in my mind, this one crosses it. If you don't think it does, that's up to you and your conscience. Our levels of what is acceptable and what isn't are different. No big deal when we aren't working to set rules, and when it isn't a member of our real life circle whose reputation is being besmirched publicly for real or imagined private activities.

When I deleted the photographs, I did so because I thought there was complaint about them from other moderators, and I was moving the thread back into a public forum for Nation to edit the multi-copies of his thread title. I merely suggested that if he was going to repost the photos he should consider blurring out the faces. If he had chosen to repost them as before, that would be his decision, not mine. From my pov, I had taken the safe line, and, to paraphrase, "My hands are clean", if he felt that reposting was doing the right thing by his standards.

I have the perception that you would like to have cast iron rules for a number of things in relation to moderating these forums. I feel differently about this. I like the fact that to a large extent we are given a free hand by Mat, and that he keeps the placing of specific rules to a minimum. This forum is a place where we can debate our own thoughts on the various issues that come up from time to time, and, usually, resolve our differences in such individual cases - what is "good" for one situation may not necessarily be so for another similar one. I seem to remember that it was universally accepted by mods that "the" photoshop showing Tuff Fish's daughter in a compromising position, even though it was never intended to be thought of as being even vaguely real life, was way over the line. I'm a little surprised the subject post isn't universally accepted as being over the line, but I have stated my arguments, and if they are not accepted by all as being fair and reasonable, so be it.

I don't think it was a really, really bad decision to delete the photos in a locked thread while this debate was ongoing, while leaving the door wide open for them to be reposted by a fellow mod at his discretion. In fact, I would go so far as to say it was a really, really good decision in the circumstances. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[NT!]

i just want to be clear that when i said i thought it was gross and sketchy for nation to post those pics, i wasn't asking for them to be taken down.

i'm not really taking a side in this. if i ran the forum, and i wasn't thinking about what is good for business or anything like that, i would say no way do i feel comfortable having that on my site. but if you asked the owners of this site the same question there are probably a lot of other things which wouldn't be here, but are today.

this, to me, falls somewhere right in that vicinity between 'would never do that myself' and 'not sure that i would prevent someone else from doing it.'

[Gildwulf]

Mike,

This is an example of where posting a pic is a no-no, in my opinion. At this point I think that is 90% a fake picture, but I pm'ed imsakidd and asked him what the deal was and if it was real and if he wanted it removed.

For BBV4l, my general rule (and I think the general rule for the rest of the offtopic forums) is that if posting pic enhances the quality of the thread and there is little to no chance of trainwreck then it is fair game. If anyone even remotely involved (someone's friend in the picture, the OP, Mat Sklansky) asks for it to be taken down it also gets shipped to the mod forum asap.

Example of ok: nation's thread
example of not ok: posting someone's personal information, facebook pictures, any link that can link someone in any way to them in real life.

[El Diablo]

Mike,

"I must have missed the previous graphic posts ... not knowing what has become acceptable on Twoplustwo in some of the forums I admit I read rarely."

Yes. What you describe has been the standard in BBV/BBV4L/OOT for a long, long time. Threads of that nature are among the most popular and most highly viewed threads in those forums.

Here's a recent thread.

Let me reiterate. There are threads and trip reports like this all the time in those forums, and have been for a long, long time.

"Our levels of what is acceptable and what isn't are different."

That's fine. It has been accepted that mods all have different standards and will set lines in their forums. But what you did was mod to your standards in a BBV4L thread. That's my problem with your actions. I think posting stuff like that is as sleazy and classless as you do. However, it has been well established on those forums that this is totally acceptable behavior.

"I did so because I thought there was complaint about them from other moderators"

The only complaint I saw was about the use of the word "kidsh-itter" in the title. What other complaints are you referring to?

"I have the perception that you would like to have cast iron rules for a number of things in relation to moderating these forums."

I think things should be consistent when it comes to mod actions, yes. Obviously there are judgement calls to be made, and mods should make them. Yes, Mat has kept rules to a minimum. But one rule he has made is that mods should mod within their forum. I don't agree with you imposing your morality on the BBV4L forum with your mod actions.

"while leaving the door wide open for them to be reposted by a fellow mod at his discretion."

That's not what you did originally, though. nation asked you if it was OK to repost them. You did not say "repost at your discretion." You said "ask her if you may."

[nation]

i'm not a sleazebag

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
"while leaving the door wide open for them to be reposted by a fellow mod at his discretion."

That's not what you did originally, though. nation asked you if it was OK to repost them. You did not say "repost at your discretion." You said "ask her if you may."



[/ QUOTE ]

That is what I did originally. Ask nation to post my original PM if you don't believe me. My later "Ask her if you may" was more a facetious riposte than anything else.

The only reason I became involved in this at all was because NT! suggested shipping the thread to Travel so that nation himself could edit all the kidshtters, and I thought it was a good idea. Once I decided I'd follow that suggestion, I deleted the photos as, for some reason, I thought there was also complaint about them. Perhaps that was only in my own mind? I'll try to remember to read the first few posts again, later. However, as long as I wasn't (in effect) posting the photos in a public forum, if nation reposted them then that had "nothing to do with me".

That was the intended end of involvement for me, as far as I was concerned. The rest has just happened because nation misrepresented, (accidentally, I'm sure), what I did and said.

[Mike Haven]

[ QUOTE ]
"I did so because I thought there was complaint about them from other moderators"

The only complaint I saw was about the use of the word "kidsh-itter" in the title. What other complaints are you referring to?



[/ QUOTE ]

I started wondering if I'd imagined the complaints about the photos being posted, so I read the first thread again.

Here are the posts that must have stuck in my subconscious:

El Diablo
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I find it pretty weird that you are so into posting pics and reports of girls you've hooked up with.


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Dids
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I think the pictures thing is kinda exploitive and just a risky choice in general.


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*TT*
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IMHO the word used in the OP title is as bad as the photo, we really shouldn't be encouraging that; its a train wreck waiting to happen. I know not everyone agrees with me on this but it needs to be said. The story is great but posting the picture of the girl without her knowledge goes too far.


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NT!
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I find it pretty gross that you are so into posting pics and reports of girls you've hooked up with.


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NT!
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i'm serious i think it's creepy.

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*TT*
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The trip report doesn't bother me. But if I was that girls father Nation would have 2 more days to live after posting my daughters picture with the story, its crosses the border of acceptable behavior in my book. I'd prefer that the pictures are removed before the thread is reposted... I'm not expecting miracles, but I hope Nation considers the feedback he has received so far and has the pictures removed.


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NT!
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yeah i like to BS about my sex life too dude, but there's a difference between that and posting pictures of chicks on the internet while talking about her 'kidshtter.' most girls get that guys are going to talk to their friends, and they talk to theirs. but if she knew she was going to be picked apart by an internet forum full of total strangers and perverts, with her pictures being passed around, i would guess that she would pass.


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*TT*
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I'm not married. In fact I haven't gotten laid in 3 months, my sex life sucks. Its not about that, its about respect for people who cannot defend themselves. If she knew about and was cool with your post then i think we would all be wrong, but since she isn't empowered to know about, dispute, or back up the post then I don't think you should include a photo.

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